EP 92 How to Deal with Jealousy as a Swinger

Coco enjoys watching her husband with other men and as a couple, because of jealousy issues, prefer to be with single males. This couple talks about how they got started swinging, how they deal with jealousy, and the stigma against bisexual men not only in the ENM community but in African American community as well.

Guest 0:01
This is what I've always asked for. I'm seeing this for myself. And then the other side of my brain was like, he is really smashing my wife and I'm kind of upset.


Leyna 0:10
So let's get to it.


(Podcast Show Open)


The conversations you're about to hear are intended for mature audiences. If adult themes are offensive to you, well, grow up…
So dirty talk? So sex talk. Yeah, it started off as dirty talk. I was actually like very excited to see my partner with somebody else. She looked at me and said, so you want to have sex with other people.
And you find it a turn on to hear about what he did. Yeah. And then it's like, I want to come home and get it the way she got it. Does he know you have a boyfriend? Yes. This is Consenting Adults with Leyna Nguyen


(End Podcast Show Open)


Leyna 0:45
My guest today our Dee and Coco they're both 42 years old been together for about 25 years married for 19 of those years and they're down there in Dallas, Texas, Dee and Coco. You've been in the lifestyle five years so together for 25 and then for the last five you guys kind of got freaky what happened?


Guest 1:08
Well, I think basically for us, you know, being married for that length of time. We just kind of wanted to kind of reinvent our selves and redefine our marriage and try something new and exciting have always wanted to experience you know, threesomes and things like that. So we just kind of, you know, test the waters with with a lifestyle.


Leyna 1:26
Was it a conversation you brought up or was it something you both were thinking about? I mean, who brought it up?


Guest 1:32
It’s always been a fantasy of mine since my early 20s. That's you know, I've always wanted that fantasy of being in a threesome and you know, seeing her with the dudes so it's something that was always in the back of my mind and always brought it up whenever we had like get togethers with friends and so it was kind of my idea and she just kind of came along. I wish I would say it like that.


Leyna 1:51
Okay, so Coco when he first you know, started talking about actually doing something What was your reaction?


Guest 1:57
Four years ago was like, No, I didn't feel like our relationship was, for lack of a better word stable enough. We were young and so I figured we needed to procure more so therefore we ventured off into that. We wouldn't have a lot of issues.


Leyna 2:14
Okay, so now you're both I guess at this point, you're in your late 30s. And you decide let's open things up a little bit and do something what I mean how did you get started?


Guest 2:22
He well, he kind of brought up the conversation, I entertained it mentally. And then one night, I just kind of brought the conversation back up to him, and, you know, informed him and I was kind of ready to see what it was about. We had some friends that were kind of testing the waters and I would hear their conversations, so I kind of told him I was interested.


Leyna 2:42
Okay, and I mean, that


Guest 2:44
Doesn't happen in our community, right? quite yet. Right? But


Leyna 2:46
Then how do you start because that doesn't, that's still just a conversation.


Guest 2:49
As far as starting. I think for me, it started with Googling and researching and just just gathering information about the lifestyle what all it entail, you know, finding podcast and you know, just kind of talking about it openly with friends that either were in the lifestyle somewhat are just kind of freaky minded. And so that's kind of how we got into it. How we really got into it was we went out with a friend a friend invited us to a club he was a dancer, and he invited us there to see him dance or whatever and, and we just kind of hung out and he gave her lap dances as I told him she was he was just dance owner, you know, get her all freaky anything but we hadn't taught us. This was yes, it was a strip club. But he and I hadn't talked about anything. As far as threesomes or being in a lifestyle that was just mainly Hey, Just Dance on or you know, just see you're having a good time. After the night ended. He asks to hang out with us or go to breakfast. It was like two or three in the morning. So we went to IHOP they were all kind of filling good from the drinks and he got in the car with us and the next thing I know they were kissing and that's how we got into it.


Leyna 3:58
were you driving and they were in the backseat or what?


Guest 4:01
Yeah, I was I was driving. He was in the back. So he asked her to get in the back with her and so I think I kind of got out of the car to go use the restroom, whatever. So when I got back and they we're in you know full swing mode with you know, oral and kissing. And I was like, This is what I've been asking for. Oh this is happening right before my eyes


Leyna 4:21
Wait so on your way to Ihop there in the backseat and like it goes all the way up to oral already?


Guest 4:28
That's how we got into it. Yeah.


Leyna 4:29
That's how you got into a situation or not the lifestyle kind of the way I think most people who are in the lifestyle right because a lot of people experiment with threesomes. You'd been asking for this was it everything you thought it would be?


Guest 4:42
At that moment? I was just to be honest, I was kind of in shock because you know we didn't plan it. So it just happened sporadically. And so at that moment, in my mind, I was like, Okay, this is what I've always asked for I'm seeing this for myself. And then the other side of my brain was like, he is really smashing my wife and I'm kind of upset. So I was kind of upset on one side of the brain that I was kind of like happy.


Leyna 5:08
What do you mean he was smashing your wife? What was he doing?




Guest 5:10
Well, yeah, it progressed from oral to actually him penetrating her so it was actually sex. So yeah, it went all the way. It was a full full thing. Yes. And obviously, they were in the backseat


Leyna 5:22
Was the Ihop at far away.


Guest 5:25
Well, once they kind of got started and he got heated and they started to move from oral to actual penetration. I kind of just kind of pulled over and just kind of let it let it happen and watched.


Leyna 5:36
Oh, you were turned on?


Guest 5:37
Yeah, yeah, I had some mixed emotions that night.


Leyna 5:41
Okay. Well, tell me about those. So I mean, part of it was oh, this is hot. What was the other part?


Guest 5:46
I'm not ready for this and why are you smashing my wife and so yeah, I kind of had these two different emotions going on in my brain. Because it was an even though I'd asked for talked about it for years


Leyna 5:57
until you experience it. You don't know how you're really gonna feel about it. Right? Exactly. Okay, Coco. So you're in the backseat your husband's driving you're with his friend. What happened how it progressed pretty quickly. Hmm.


Guest 6:11
Yes, I believe it was a setup


Leyna 6:13
Oh you believe it was a setup?


Guest 6:14
Yes, I do. But I just kind of went with the feelings of you know, the freaky feelings and one thing led to another and I mean, in my mind, I was thinking, okay, he wanted to see this. So there shouldn't be a problem with this.


Leyna 6:29
So you really didn't have a problem with this. I mean, it wasn't you weren't. Were you at all concerned how your husband would react?


Guest 6:36
in the moment No, to be honest, I wasn't thinking about that.


Leyna 6:40
What were you thinking about Coco? I don't know being freaky.


Guest 6:45
Again, I thought it was a setup. I thought this was something orchestrated. He wanted to happen. And so I went with it thinking that okay, this is a setup he had no problem with me getting in the backseat with its friend. So to me, it was like, Okay, this is a setup, so I'm just gonna go with it. And hopefully he'll enjoy whatever happens.


Leyna 7:04
Okay, when it's all said and done, Was it awkward or or no,


Guest 7:09
it was awkward for me because of his mixed emotions.


Leyna 7:12
Well, how did you know he had mixed emotions though, so I'm talking about Did he say anything right now?


Guest 7:17
No, not right then. But no to for me that night. It wasn't like when the friend was around. It wasn't awkward. I mean, we went in and had breakfast.


Leyna 7:28
Let's get past that night. Did you guys then sit down and talk about hey, how did that go for you?


Guest 7:34
Yeah, I think we debriefed


Guest 7:36
Yeah, I think he voiced his his concern of jumping in headfirst and not discussing, you know, we had we didn't discuss boundaries. So I think you know, had we sat down and created our boundaries, you know, what are the things we you know, we don't want to see that we do want to see or we don't want to, you know, cross the line with so I think a conversation such as that should have happened.


Leyna 8:01
So you had the conversation you talk about, you know, his mixed emotions. Etc. Did you decide at that point that this is okay enough for us to continue? Or did you guys take a break?


Guest 8:12
We pretty much decided that we were going to continue to explore it and you know, look for you know, friends and just kind of you know, I think we ended up setting up a profile we just kept ongoing with it


Leyna 8:24
Coco. At that point. Would you have been okay, had your husband been with someone else? That's a no, that's a no.


Guest 8:37
Well, no, I wouldn't have been okay. Okay. So you would have just right, okay. Yeah. But I think also, he knows, like, he brought up like that something he's already he's expressed, that he would like to see, you know, so that's not like a full desire of mine.


Leyna 8:57
So you really didn't have a desire to see your husband with anyone else. But hey, if he wants to see you with someone else, you are happy to oblige, right? Correct. This is a good time to mention that they're both bisexual. So now it's gonna get really interesting. Did you ever do anything about being bisexual while you were together? Prior to No, no. While you were together while you were together? Did you Did either of you have any bisexual activity with anyone else?


Guest 9:25
I didn't.


Leyna 9:26
Dee?


Guest 9:26
He did. As far as as far as me. Yeah, she she knew about you know, my desires before we were married. So that was something that we talked about. And so, you know, of course, when you when you’re Bi, you know, as a male black male in society, you're not going to be as open and honest about everything you do. So you try to want to hide some things. So yeah, so So we had that whole dynamic going on and that was kind of one of the reasons why we chose to back in 2017 and just be open and honest about our desires and what we wanted. And that's kind of why we, you know, chose to go this route so we can just be open and honest and transparent with each other and being by the lifestyle works for us.


Leyna 10:10
So the question was while you guys were together, so before you got into the lifestyle that you're in now, did you have any bisexual experiences? We know she didn't Did you Dee? Yes. What did you do


Guest 10:24
for my male friends? I'm pretty much a I would classify myself as a as a top. So you know, top, you know, did oral those types of things with guys.


Leyna 10:38
And your wife knew about it and she was okay with it.


Guest 10:41
She didn't know about it. You know about certain aspects of it, but but she knew that, you know, I was bi and she knew I had the, you know, I had the attraction for males. So some of the stuff was kind of secretive. But eventually, you know, we talked about it and I came out to or the change happened around 2017 for us and our marriage. That's when we really started to being open and honest about everything.


Leyna 11:07
So So what you're saying is while you guys were together, you did have sexual experiences with other men, but your wife didn't know about it.


Guest 11:14
No, she didn't know about it. Correct.


Leyna 11:17
So something happens in 2017. You both decide let's just be open and transparent. Talk about our desires and maybe act upon some of it after that first experience where like wife is flipping pancakes in the backseat with your friend. What was the next thing that you guys did? I mean, you did what all the other swingers. Do you start, you know, an online profile and looking for people? What was your first kind of lifestyle real life style experience after that,




Guest 11:44
we will definitely be the profile thing. So we will Yeah, we ran into some couples and we had some interaction with couples and we we realized early on that couples are not our thing. We prefer a male


Leyna 11:58
Oh, why is that?


Guest 11:59
Couples or too much of a challenge? You have to make sure everyone is there's a connection. I feel like if I make a connection with the dude, and then he doesn't make a connection with the female, it just took too much too


Leyna 12:12
So it was too hard to find the four way connection


Guest 12:17
Correct


(Sponsors Ad)


Today's episode is sponsored by Honey if you're like me and you're busy, you do a lot of shopping online. Also, because you're busy, you don't have time to look for coupons and codes. That's why Honey makes it all much easier. It's the free shopping tool that scours the internet for promo codes and then applies the best one and can find for your purchase. I've used it for clothes, makeup, food basket deliveries, shoes, do I need to go on? Here's how it works. You shop when you go to checkout, the honey button drops down and all you have to do is click Apply coupons. Wait a few seconds and if Honey finds a working coupon, you're gonna see the prices drop. If you don't already have Honey, you could be straight up missing out. It's literally free and installs in just a few seconds. And by getting it you'll be doing yourself a solid and supporting this podcast. I'd never recommend something I don't use get Honey for free at joinhoney.com/consenting That's joinhoney.com/consenting


(Sponsor’s Ad)
Well, as you guys know, your health affects your sex life. So being at the top of your game means taking care of your body. Well, I've been on Athletic Greens since the beginning of the year and I love it. I'm one of those people who hates taking any kind of pills so I can't take vitamins and supplements with athletic greens is one scoop and a cup of water every day and it actually tastes good. It contains 75 high quality vitamins, minerals, Whole Foods sourced superfoods, probiotics and adaptogens to help you start your day right. It also has less than one gram of sugar no GMOs, no nasty chemicals or artificial anything. I've been feeling energized and I'm sleeping better at night. It costs less than $3 a day which is nothing by the way when taking care of your health. So try it out to make it easy athletic greens is going to give you a free one year supply of immune supporting vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase all you have to do is visit athletic greens.com/leyna Again, that's athletic greens.com/leyna to take ownership of your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance.


Guest 14:26
We ran into a lot of husbands will not allow their wives to go the full swap with another male. So it was more about just watching the women. Oh, yes, I was like, I don't want to do that.


Leyna 14:37
So now you decide to focus more on on single males. Why is that? I mean, Coco you're bisexual. Why didn't you bring women into the mix?


Guest 14:48
I use the word bisexual but I think I'm bi flexible.


Leyna 14:53
Okay, so explain that.


Guest 14:54
I am attracted to women, but I'm not. I like to entertain women. But I'm necessarily I don't like to have like sex with women frequently. Like it really has to be a strong connection for me to want to have sex with the woman. It's just not a desire of mine to have a female it's just too much. It can be too much for me sexually,


Leyna 15:18
Do not like doing the work. Is that you're saying


Guest 15:21
It’s not that I don't like doing the work. But it's just sometimes they don't like doing the work like you put in the work. Like they can be pillow princesses. And he's not I don't have time for this like whatever, you know. So okay,


Leyna 15:34
I want to go back to something you said earlier because there's already still a stigma against bisexual men in the lifestyle in general, let alone a black male bisexual. Can you talk more about that? Because I think it's, it may be the same way in other cultures like for Hispanics or I don't know if it's the same thing for Asians. But there's just something about that that is still very stigmatized, like people are not open about it, right?


Guest 16:02
Yes, you're very correct in that. We choose to be open and upfront about ours. But yeah, in the lifestyle there are people and there you know people that host parties that will put out hey, we do not want gay bi men hetero flexible man at our parties and you know, it's something that's kind of frowned upon. But little do they know a lot of the straight guys and this is something that's that I've experienced a lot of the straight guys, you know, once you're behind closed doors, and they know that they're in a safe zone or no judgement zone. A lot of them are open to those types of activities.


Leyna 16:43
Now is it even more so within the black community though? Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. To be a bi male


Guest 16:48
Oh, yeah. Yes. Yeah. No one really wants to talk about it. And so you you have this subculture of BI men that are DL. They're they're doing it secretively, and they may be in relationships with females, or they may be married but that's their secret lifestyle. And they just choose to remain that way because they know they will be ostracized or criticized and talked about if they were to come out openly about their sexuality and their desires.


Leyna 17:17
Okay, let's talk about some of the fun stuff you guys have done. I'm like if I asked you what are some of the crazy fun things you've done? You know like ideal situation like what what do you really like Coco?


Guest 17:28
If it's in mfm, I do prefer the male to be if not bisexual, but be flexible to some bi play just because I found it to be more interesting because I don't like to be the total center of attention the entire night. I'm only going for so long. It was like okay, I'm done. So if I can get a break in between they do their thing. Like that's a good break for me. And I mean, I like to see you to my husband being pleasured.


Leyna 17:57
Can you tell me when you see your husband with another man? Do you get turned on what what do you like to see?


Guest 18:04
Whatever they're doing? I like to see. Yes, I'm turned on because it's something that like, I can't provide that male touch. He's receiving this in my presence and I'm here and I just like to watch


Leyna 18:16
And do you like to watch your husband receiving or giving pleasure? Both and Dee Do you have any desire to watch your wife with a woman?


Guest 18:26
Oh, I do. I do. That was when we first got into this. One of my desires. I think it was probably for I said I as far as a Christmas gift. I want to bring in a female I want to see her with a female I want to enjoy that experience because we've never done that. And so that was something that that I brought up and we made it happen.


Leyna 18:49
Don’t be holding out on me.


Guest 1852
So it was it was a it was a female friend that I had met and I told about the wife and I have been in the lifestyle and we're looking to experience play with the female. We've never never did that. And I think that I told her I think you would like her and you guys should meet so I kind of told my wife about this female and then they started chatting amongst themselves via text and group texts or whatever. And then they kind of went out and did their little girl thing dinner, drink shopping, whatever. And once she felt comfortable with the female, then we kind of set something up and I got to experience it for the first time.


Leyna 19:26
No, no, no, no That won't do that will not do this. About what happened


Guest 19:34
Okay, we went out had dinner had drinks and then we got a hotel room. I think the wife let me start with with the female first you know so I did my you know foreplay with the female and got things you know, got the blood running and everything all moist and wet and all that good stuff. And so we kind of you know, played around and then the wife joined in with this. So she got the watch and then she joined in with this and then I kind of played around with both of them. And we and we had a good night. We did this over the weekend. So we had a Friday. night and we had a Saturday night. Friday night was banging. It was awesome time the first time on Friday. Saturday night. We went back for a second time and some some hell broke loose on on Saturday night. So I'll let the wife talk about Saturday night.


Leyna 20:21
What happened?


Guest 20:22
Well, okay, this person he had already met this person prior to me that night. I don't know they like touch hands a weird way as if they've done that before. And so that just flipped me the hell out like I was ready to go I stopped immediately and I told him let's go like, I just flipped the fuck out.


Leyna 20:45
How dare you you touched her hand during sex.


Guest 20:49
They were like holding hands. We I mean, it was just a weird thing that came across my mind. So yeah,


Leyna 20:55
I understand. I've talked to other couples because and this is a common thread. It's not the sex. It's the holding of the hands. It's the small touching of her of her back. It's more like the really intimate stuff that gets to you.


Guest 21:10
Correct and that's what did it for me. It's like it crossed the line but it didn't cross the line. In that moment. It crosses the line, which I ended you know, I apologize because it you know, it was uncalled for, like I shouldn't have flipped out but I did. So I did the next day I apologized to her and I ruined a perfectly good night.


Leyna 21:30
So have you ever been able to work around that or does it still does it still kind of bother you?


Guest 21:37
Oh No. I don't think I've had in that situation like that since that night.


Leyna 21:43
But is there a reason why you guys prefer single males to single females?






Guest 21:49
Yes, I really. I don't trust women. So it's a female. I'd prefer for the female to be married because I feel like you know, she has just as much to lose than I do. And I just don't like dealing with single females because women can be so conniving. I don't I just don't trust women. Okay, that's just me being on site.


Leyna 22:12
Right now. That's good. I appreciate that. Because you have to be able to be honest about how you really feel right. It's the only way to get through this in one piece. Dee is there anything that you don't want to see that you don't like doing?


Guest 22:29
You know that there have been times and this was probably early on, you know, being newbies into the lifestyle, whereby if the session is over, and let's say the fuck session is over, and if I just kind of see her like steal caressing and lying with the guy and at this point, I'm like, okay, he's busted his nut, I’ve busted mine a couple of times you busted yours several times. Why are we still wrapped up in the arms of this guy? It's time to go. Let's let's go why. And, you know, when I was younger into the lifestyle, that that kind of bothered me so we have this thing, this signal that I give her to let her know that okay, this is bothering me. I'm ready to go. So I will tap her on her ankle. And so during that moment when we were with this dude, like she was just kind of like I called it she was “dickmotized” at this point. I was kind of like, tapping her ankles like Okay, it's time to go. Now you can let him go. You know, that was one of the things that I had to kind of get over.


Leyna 23:27
If I asked you guys in a perfect world if the perfect date perfect situation. What would you like to do


Guest 23:35
if we could find a single guy that's open to you know the bi stuff and that's that's great if he can please both of us at the same time. And that has happened before. If the bi guy can please both parties at the same damn time. That's like fireworks for us.


Leyna 23:51
Hold on. Tell me what you're talking about.


Guest 23:55
This is probably one of the most memorable experiences that I can remember. As a guy was on his back. The wifey was riding him and I was riding his tongue. And so the wife and I we were kissing at the same time. And that was just explosive for me just to be able to to experience that. That was awesome for me.


Leyna 24:19
Coco was it just as awesome for you?


Guest 24:22
Yes, it was. Anything again. I really enjoyed the the male on male play. So anything with that it's turns me on. So


Leyna 24:32
Do you ever do you have any hard limits like are is there? Is there stuff that I do?


Guest 24:36
I mean, I've tried anal, but I'm just not gonna let anybody just run up in my ass so I don't do anal. Right now. I'll say right now I'm, I'm prepping myself to maybe venture off into that. But um, I really don't like anyone to come in my mouth.


Leyna 24:53
Dee, do you have any hard limits?


Guest 24:56
My hard limits have definitely probably gotta be just making sure that it's safe sex always. No, no raw sex for us. You know, we're not into any of the crazy kinks you know, with you know, feces and blood play and all that kind of stuff. As long as it's you know, good fun great people great sex.


Leyna 25:16
If you were to give advice to a couple just looking to get into the lifestyle what what good advice would you give them?


Guest 25:24
For the male I would definitely advise the male to be ready mentally. And psychologically for because, you know, I talked to me and all the time and a lot of them are kind of shocked that I can be in a room and see my wife be fucked by another dude so me I was like, Man, I can't do that. How do you do that? I would just blow the fuck off. And so when men are asking me questions about the lifestyle, I was like, Hey, you have to be mentally ready for this. And if you're not mentally ready for it, then you probably want to wait and not do it. But definitely educate yourself communicate and communicate and communicate and after every encounter, always debrief about what you liked, what you didn't like, and what you could change for the next experience.
Leyna: If you’re enjoying this show, plz do leave us a review on apple podcasts or on spotify or join our exclusive membership at buymeacoffee.com/LeynaNguyen
Alrgiht Next time on CA—it’s a kink even most swingers would shutter at—CBT or ballbusting…and how it’s enhanced this man’s sex life.
Guest: at first I didn't realize there was even a community of people who were into this kink until I saw that people on the internet were talking about it. and at first I was like man, that has got to be the most horrible thing i've ever heard of in my entire life I could not wrap my head around it.
Leyna: That's next time, on Consenting Adults.