EP 88 A Unicorn's Journey

A beautiful young woman finds herself in a sex club and getting the attention, respect, and sex she wanted so she became a unicorn. Her interest in sexuality has led her to helping others as a licensed clinical social worker and certified sex therapist. She talks about how newbies can get started in the lifestyle.
You can find Mina at NewSparkTherapy.com

​Guest 1:01
And I realized after we were done playing, I asked did you have the mic on the whole time? He said sheepishly Yes, yes, I did. I have to for work, and I realized oh, that's a TURN ON TO ME to note to self microphones during sex. 

Leyna 1:16
Get ready. This is consenting adults. 

(Podcast Show Open)

The conversations you're about to hear are intended for mature audiences. If adult themes are offensive to you, well, grow up…
So dirty talk? So sex talk. Yeah, it started off as dirty talk. I was actually like very excited to see my partner with somebody else. She looked at me and said, so you want to have sex with other people.
And you find it a turn on to hear about what he did. Yeah. And then it's like, I want to come home and get it the way she got it. Does he know you have a boyfriend? Yes. This is Consenting Adults with Leyna Nguyen

(End Podcast Show Open)

Leyna 1:54
My guest today is a 34 year old clinical psychologist and clinical social worker. She's also a certified sex therapist. And she's in the lifestyle was once a unicorn, you are checking off all of my boxes today. Mina Ratkalkar, thanks for coming on the show. I can't wait to hear about this journey because it sounds like it's been very interesting in your short 34 years because you're very young. Can you tell me like how you got into the lifestyle and did you realize it was the lifestyle? 

Guest 2:26
I didn't realize fully what that meant. And I actually started as a unicorn. So I knew what swinging was. I had heard of it. So this was almost 10 years ago. I was a social worker at the time driving back from a jail where I was for work, not for any other reasons. And I saw this place with these purple lights. And I had no idea what it was. I didn't know if it was a strip club or something but didn't look like one. And I pulled into the parking lot. And I googled it and saw what it was and I still had no idea what that meant. Adult lifestyle club, and I happened to have a slinky little dress in my trunk and I changed and I walked in how convenient and I got a very warm welcome, let's say from everybody inside well, and from then on, I just saw how open minded and welcoming and female centric it was. It was one of the few spaces where I felt like when I said yes or no or ask for something that it would be honored, no questions asked. And that was such a welcome relief from a lot of other spaces. 
Leyna 3:34
I’m so glad you brought that up because I think people who are not in the lifestyle look at it and they think things like like why would you let another man use your wife that way and many people in the lifestyle have told me it is very female centric and that there's a lot of boundaries, lots of you know lines and rules that people don't break and they don't cross I mean of course you have the occasional you know idiot like you wouldn't in you know vanilla life as well. So let's talk about this. So 24 year old beautiful girl walks into a sex club. Describe the scene to me what did it look like? You've never been in one before, right? 

Guest 4:14
No, no. And I knew what swinging was, but I didn't really know how people went about it. And I had been in monogamous relationships up until that point. And it was a group of people who had all met there I was a bit younger as you might imagine. Then most of the people there and they just asked me to join in. Oh, you're here. Nice to meet you. This is who we are. This is what we do. And the bouncer bouncer slash security who was also a member. It was definitely like a family there. He showed me let's say the warmest welcome. And we actually ended up playing that night. 

Leyna 4:52
What are you talking about? 

Guest 4:54
We ended up playing that night with some of the other people from the birthday party around and they said oh he's such a good guy. You to have chemistry have a good time and they were in the room and he still had his three piece suit on. I had my birthday suit on. And I realized after we were done playing I asked did you have the mic on the whole time? Because he had a mic for security. Right? He said sheepishly Yes, yes, I did. I have to for work. And I realized oh, that's the TURN ON TO ME to note to self microphones during sex. Oh, and I walked out thinking okay, I enjoy apparently watching being watched being heard and also having my yeses and noes being heard with no questions. And it was fun. That was the main thing. It was just a lot of fun. In a way that I hadn't really seen in other places. 

Leyna 5:45
So you hooked up with a bouncer which I mean, you know as a 24 year old, beautiful girl in a club doesn't sound so scandalous 



Guest 5:54
and a couple I hooked up with him after I joined a couple okay, but he showed me the warmest welcome. Let's say that okay, 

Leyna 5:58
You have to tell me what happened with a couple. It was just a nice man who approached me who said my wife really wants me to play with you and she wants to watch and I first thought oh, she doesn't want to join she is beautiful. Are you bisexual? No. I identify as hetero flexible my interest in women really surges if there is a man present. And they're watching. Oh, okay. I just knew that. Whatever it was, I was into it at the moment and I thought, oh, it'd be fun if she joined. So I kissed her and played with her a little bit. And she said, No, no, no, I really want to watch you with my husband. Oh, and it was the jealousy, the jealousy and watching him and taught him talking about how much he is enjoying experiencing whatever we were doing together. And I was so intrigued. I thought, Oh, this would be so many women's worst nightmare. Right? So she was loving it and I was having a good time. And I was so curious. And then the bouncer knocked on the door because I heard what a great time we were having and they were friends with him too and said, Oh, you guys had chemistry you should join so then they hung out on the side played a little and then just watched us.

Leyna 7:10
She sounds like a cuckquean. Have you heard what I said? Okay, so she's she was a Cuckquean. 

Guest 7:17
She did not use that word, but that is that's the word I would use for her. 

Leyna 7:21
Right before this. Had you been in threesomes? Like had you experimented with stuff like that?

Guest 7:27
I had and I liked it. And I knew years before that, that I wanted to be a sex therapist. And so I was interested in experiencing and at least learning about the wide world of sexual expression. It wasn't all that surprising to people in my life when I told them what I did on a random night. 

Leyna 7:48
Did you at some point in your life, because you you said that you were a unicorn. I think that with the knowledge that you have now and with the terminology that's available now you can say I was a unicorn, she was a cuckquean, but you know, whatever. But back when you were experiencing these things, did you see it as being in the lifestyle or were you just like, wild chick, like having sex with other people? 

Guest 8:15
I for some reason, that's a very good question. I had grouped the couples in the lifestyle as swingers. And I thought of myself as someone who has fun with fingers or someone who has fun with open minded couples, or sometimes more than couples. I've been in trouble before in a short term polyamorous relationship, but that came a little bit later. That's still when I was learning kind of all of the terminology and, and all of that, but I didn't put the word unicorn to it till someone told me Oh, you are a unicorn. And I don't know what that means. How could it be one? I don't know what that means. 

Leyna 8:53
But did you have what we would call normal relationships? Like sex is one thing so tell me about that. Like if you would get a boyfriend How do you tell your boyfriend by the way? You know, I enjoy having sex with couples. 

Guest 9:08
I did bring it up. This is something I'm interested in. It's not a must have but it was a good barometer. When looking for a partner to see how open they were to it. Someone who had a lot of alarming judgment though I knew would not be a good fit. Right? Okay. And so it wasn't reaction. Yeah, you're perverse and weird. And so we parted ways. And then sometimes it was, oh, so you'll have sex with anyone and do anything and no, that's also not true. Right. And then I met a few people since I started that journey, who are regular people with an open mind and had the flexibility to think, Oh, she's into this. And my current partner. Now we actually we met on an app for people for open minded people, and we talked about being a lifestyle from day one. 

Leyna 10:02
Okay. And what is your dynamic Are you guys swingers? 

Guest 10:05
Yeah, we would identify as that and we are, are definitely each other's primary partner. And we both were on the same page from the first date. If we go on to be a we, what we'd be looking for is having our person but also having fun without a lot of jealousy, maybe other couples or singles that we could have fun weekend's away, enjoy each other's time, and just keep it really respectful and fun. 


Leyna 10:39
So what are the types of things that that you guys are into, like, what do you do? Like threesomes MF MFM 

Guest 10:45
Yeah, yeah, it's it's a mix.  sometimes. Just same, you know, playing in the same room as other couples, or being watched, sometimes full swap. Sometimes we invite singles of any gender. I would say my partner's fully straight and I'm hetero flexible. But when it comes to enjoying ourselves and freeing ourselves a little bit, the boundaries can be a little more flexible and it works great for us.

Leyna 11:18
So you've done group sex orgies. Yeah. Yeah. gangbangs 

Guest 11:25
No, I haven't done it's not been of interest to me and sometimes group sex. I've had the opportunity to join in a few times and there have been a couple of times where I went and I just thought it smells like too much body in here. I'm leaving.
I can't be in here. Too visceral of an experience. And I went to the buffet and grabbed the soda. 

Leyna 11:47
We should say that you're out there on the East Coast and North Carolina. Is there a big lifestyle population down there? 

Guest 11:54
There definitely some more than I would have expected. 

Leyna 13:34
I sometimes get messages from people asking me you know what about so pandemic aside, but just sexual wellness? Could no one really ever talks about it. You know people who aren't in the lifestyle think it's just a bunch of people having sex with a bunch of other people what do you guys given each other? Can you talk about how safety is is handled in the lifestyle? 

Guest 13:54
Definitely open and honest conversations. And so condoms are kind of the obvious, but also things like of something people don't know that much about is the HPV vaccine that when it first came out, it was only four strains of HPV that are covered more recently. Now there are nine strains covered now the CDC says up until age 26 is the recommended cut off age because they think okay, by that point most people have experienced the risk they're going to have but if you're in the lifestyle, and you know you're going to have more partners, you can talk with your doctor about getting this shot up until the age of 45. And that's just something that doesn't get a lot of conversation but it is something my partner and I have talked about and done to protect ourselves. Honestly speaking in group settings, no people aren't slowing down to ask What is your status before they jump all in? Think it is somewhat risky? Yeah, of course. And my partner and I talked about this, what are things we can do to minimize risk? Because yeah, having bodily contact with a lot of people does increase your risk. There's no way around it. 

Leyna 15:00
So what can you do? So I mean, what about oral sex that there's condom use during sex, but what about oral sex? 

Guest 15:09
So many people don't use it during oral sex and that's where something like the HPV vaccine can make a big difference with oral or throat cancer and things like that. It's not sexy at all to think about but that's the reality of it. And some people do use do use protection or flavored lube and there are other ways to make it still fun and interesting, just playing in front of each other playing next to each other and seeing all the things you can do just with your fingers can reduce risk in a very big way. It does require a little bit of creativity but the stuff people may do one on one once or fluid bonded with somebody may not be what you want to or need to be doing with 20 of your best friends. 

Leyna 15:53
What would be like the wildest thing that you've done in the lifestyle?

Guest 15:57
There was one night I went to a play party alone. It was a big one. There were a lot of people there and I invited a lot of different gentlemen to a room and there were just kind of gave them all roles of you're going to do this. You're going to do this you're going to do this oh, and 

Leyna 16:15
That’s kind of like gang bang but like controlled. 

Guest 16:19
Yes. And and I only allowed one person to have sex with me. I just had this sudden burst of confidence. I'd never done anything like that before. 

Leyna 16:30
One question I do get a lot from people is how do you get started in the lifestyle because it sounds very intriguing, very sexy. You know, they've been thinking about it for a while, but they really don't know. Like how to get started. So what would you tell people like how do you get started? 

Guest 16:46
So let's just assume that they are a monogamous couple who has already had the conversation if this is something we're interested in. So if we start from there, I do ask them. Number one, what is it that you're interested in specifically, just in fantasy, and a little bit about why I don't want people to dissect it too much? Because that's where the complex has come in. And is it weird or should I? Sometimes you just like the color blue, or you like the color red? And it's just that's it? So there's no why? There's no why before we talk about any websites or how to find play partners is to do a check in and make sure that you're letting that you're letting pleasure instead of anxiety, run the show, know what you want, but be flexible. And it doesn't have to be this very anxious negotiation. Because that that's the main sticking point that I see a lot of become so anxiety ridden that it's not even fun. And why are you doing this in the first place if it's not fun, right? So that's the main thing is have fun. This is all again before people find play partners, asking Is this okay? Because everyone is so worried about crossing a boundary that they can't take back. Am I gonna hurt this person I love am I going to crush you? It is so it can be so unsexy to turn in the middle of sex and say is this okay? All right. And so having couples either on their own or in in the room with me whatever they're comfortable with coming up with alternatives to it, like still making it language about consent, but having fun with it. So tell me show me what you want. Tell me what you want to see. They can say stuff like that. Or if someone says something in the moment, for example, Oh, do you want me to kiss her? And then he might answer back? No, I want you to do this, which is still consent, still keeping your boundaries till checking in. But starting from a place of how do we have fun instead of are we going to have fun and that mindset shift. If people can get that going before they go on any dates before they go to any parties? I think that can make the biggest difference. 

Leyna 18:56
And then once you've done all of these things, right, and you're ready to like, actually have sex with other people. Yeah. How do you find other people?

Guest 19:05
So the the usual suspects online especially now with the pandemic still going on? Websites like SLS that's Swinger lifestyle adultfriendfinder Reddit is a good place to find people in your community. There are subreddits devoted just to swingers Kasidie, and then there's always a catch all of Tinder because anyone who wants anything is probably going to be on there. If you're willing to sift you can find that too. 

Leyna 19:30
Well, I hear it's a lot of work to sift through people, but then it's like that in vanilla dating. Yes. It's the same thing. Yes. Right. You get online you don't know if people are being truthful, or they're using, you know, recent photographs, that kind of thing. So it's very much the same thing. It's like it's a couple datings like, you know, you as a husband and wife you get on and you're still doing the same things you would have done if you were vanilla dating. Oh, let's go back to the whole unicorn thing, shall we? Because, I mean, that's a reason why they're called unicorns that they're hard to find. I have talked to some life style couples who, in their, you know, 20 years have had one experience with a unicorn. Like,  how do you how do you find unicorns? Like, like, like you will, how are you finding people or is it really just a matter of you finding people and not couples finding you? 

Guest 20:25
On this websites on field on Tinder? They are there they are available? I would also say FetLife and some others. So single women may be on that site, and maybe open to a lot of you know, just a lot of things but may not say I'm a unicorn because that's just not the terminology, but are open to being dumbed by a couple or something like that. And so I've seen couples have or just, you know, find people that way, or if you're in a community where they have lunches or BDSM get togethers that's a place sometimes to find people and at play parties. There's often somebody who brings a friend or someone Oh, she's curious about this or She's recently single and I asked her to come you know, and it could be word of mouth to that I once people really join a community to say, Hey, if you have any hot, single friends, tell them to come by. And sometimes that works. People are just curious and want to see.

Leyna 21:38
Since you started this so young and have been in it for 10 years now and then now it's really focus of your professional life. Do you see yourself like always being in the lifestyle like can you ever see yourself being a monogamous person? Hmm, I could Oh, you can? 

Guest 21:56
Yeah, I could. It's something that I enjoy. And it's something that I would like to have available in a long term relationship. But if it's sometimes I mean, the pandemic has been good practice for that. And other friends of mine who are in the lifestyle sometimes I got some joking text from people has forced monogamy treating you for month six. Where you know, stuff is busy, and it's hard enough to coordinate a date with one person, much less when you have to coordinate to and then they have to find a sitter. Oh, this one you know, my kid's soccer practice got delayed and all you know, real life stuff. And right. So if sometimes the work of it outweighs the fun, then it may not. You know, I could see taking a hiatus you know, play parties and stuff are always there, but I have gone a while without going to them dating monogamously or not.

Leyna 22:51
What kind of issues or problems or like what do people go to you for? 

Guest 22:57
For I think I have the best job in the world. I feel so lucky. People come to me with it doesn't just have to be questions or concerns related to sex. But when it comes to sex therapy, stuff related to sexual confidence, sexual communication, so a couple sometimes having discrepancy and desire or we had a baby and everything has changed. We're interested in opening up our relationship. How do we do this safely? And so people come to me for for things like that. Sometimes people healing from sexual trauma, and a lot of times there's overlap, a question I get sometimes, is it do I want this because I've been through trauma and most of the time the answer is no. You just like what you like, and you've had that experience and it's okay to have both. I might just put myself out of business. Because a lot of times the question is, am I normal? And that's what the question is, is it normal? Is it okay that I like this? And when I say yes, oh, okay. Our work is done. You're good to go. Done.

Leyna 24:04
You can get in touch with Mina on her website at newsparktherapy.com  

Leyna 24:09
Alright, next time on consenting adults, a couple goes through a lot of changes after just wanting to try a threesome from visiting sex clubs to running their own parties all the way to legal prostitution at the famous bunny ranch in Vegas. 

Guest 24:27
I actually had less sex at the ranch than I did any of our parties. Most of these guys just want to talk or they want a blow job or a hand job or foot job and not having as much sex so it was easy it was easy. That's next time on consenting adults.