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In this episode of Consenting Adults, host Leyna Nguyen chats with a school social worker named Micki who is not shy about her lifestyle! She no longer wants to be monogamous after being able to explore her bisexuality in an open relationship.
EP 6 – School Social Worker says NO MORE monogamy
Leyna: Welcome to the show everyone, thanks so much for joining us. Oh my gosh what a week it has been. We are climbing up in the charts, and it's not just in the United States, I mean there's listing all over the world, like in Hong Kong. In Canada, all those, those kinky Canadians day. And believe it or not we were the number 10 podcast on sexuality in Bahrain. Yes. And in Ireland, the Irish love us. So if you haven't yet, please continue to tell your family and your friends. Maybe that's your fat loss unless your family is kind of cool about this stuff, but tell your friends, because they are missing out if they're not listening to the conversations that we're having here on consenting adults. And speaking of conversations. I'm loving what I'm seeing on social media, a quick shout out to some of the people who've been talking to us, kinky Republicans, I love it. Also subtle genius. Happy Hot wife, and Miss Joanne F, they've been having some fun conversations with me on Twitter so thank you for that. Find us we are at consent, adults, and it's not always about sex, I mean, we talk about you know whatever's going on but, oh well, okay, so most of it is about sex but it's, it's all fun. Now one comment I did see over a week ago with someone asking to hear from a female perspective. I guess it's not a big surprise to people that a lot of men enjoy non monogamy. And some people aren't convinced that there are indeed women who also enjoy non monogamy. Well my guest today, not only enjoys it. She prefers it. She is not going back. And she has been on a quest to find a woman to share with her partner. Get ready. This is Consenting Adults.
(Podcast Show Open)
Leyna: My guest today is a school social worker in Albany, New York. She's three eight, but she dates people anywhere from about 10 years younger to 10 years older than she is. Mickey is currently in an ethically non monogamous relationship. Now, make it when I asked you if you needed to be anonymous, I was expecting to hear yes but you said no and that kind of surprises me as a school social worker, I mean are people like this open and cool about this kind of stuff over there in Albany, New York.
Guest: I mean I think it's getting a lot better as far as that goes, but for me personally, I just decided a while ago that I felt like if I was hiding that part of me, I was kind of not living authentically,
Leyna: do your coworkers, know or is it just not something that you tell them and not something that you hide some of them.
Guest: no it just depends if it kind of goes that way in a conversation, one day, you know, do most of your friends and family know my friends all know my family does not, I have actually spent a lot of this quarantine time doing some thinking about quote unquote coming out to them. So it is something that I would like to do
Leyna: let's talk about your situation. Sure Can you kind of describe the relationship, or relationships that you have, what kind of setup do you guys have.
Guest: I like the term ethically non monogamous because I feel like it's more of a blanket term, you know polyamorous is more specific or something like swinging is another thing I like ethically non monogamous because it kind of covers any of the options I have a primary partner we've been together almost two years we have been non monogamous from the very beginning. And by being non monogamous, we are able to meet other people date other people hook up with other people have long term relationships with other people, you know, whatever kind of comes naturally.
Leyna: Now when you both got into this relationship. Were you involved with other people as well, no at the same time,
Guest: no we were both actually single,
Leyna: so you were both single, you get into a relationship but it's non monogamous, from the beginning. Explain that to me,
Guest: well on our, on our very first date, actually, it kind of came up while we were having dinner that we had both thought previously about non monogamous relationships or polyamorous relationships and how that might be something we were both looking for from here on out, having had multiple monogamous relationships throughout our life and we both were kind of amazed that the other one said that, and so we were like, Okay, That's a good sign. And then after you know casually dating like once every couple of weeks when we had a, you know what, what is this conversation, you know once we started to realize we kind of really liked each other. We discussed what it would look like from here on out, if we were to be serious together but also stay non monogamous, and we were very much on the same page about everything so it worked out very well. And what were those boundaries or agreements or rules, who we discussed a couple of things off the bat that we thought would be why we would want to go in this direction. One is that we are slightly long distance, we're about 90 minutes away from each other. We can kind of only do weekends because of work. And you know we have other things going on on the weekends so you know we're far apart, and sometimes we might want to do a date type thing or have somebody closer. We also talked about the fact that I identify as bisexual. I've always had a hard time with the fact that I feel super like limited or put into a box, depending on who I'm dating, you know, if I'm with a guy, then people think I'm straight and by dating a guy in a monogamous relationship, I'm supposed to kind of ignore the part of me that likes women right. We both just went over. Like all of the things that we never liked about monogamous relationships. And yeah, it just seemed so like natural and easy.
Leyna: Before this relationship where either of you in any kind of non monogamous relationship.
Guest: No, I have definitely done my share of unethically non monogamous things in relationships, but I've never been in any kind of like open or non monogamous relationship before, so this was actually new for both of us. And how's it working out for you. It has been fantastic. Yeah, yeah, it's been so good, but it's just been so easy, And like, freeing I feel like it's so nice.
Leyna: You must feel good, not having to lie.
Guest: Oh yeah, that's a huge thing about you know being ethically non monogamous is like, there's no reason to do that if I talk to somebody or I meet somebody that I'm into in one way or another, I can just tell him. And you know, the same with him and we're kind of each other's cheerleaders when that happens, any jealousy ever. Um, yeah, it definitely comes up, you know it's a human emotion that's gonna pop up sometimes. The difference is just, you know what you do with it, and I feel like in a monogamous relationship a lot of times people just kind of stuff it down, ignore it, and we talk about it, you know, we also promised each other that we would always talk about anything that came up around our relationship. No matter how like uncomfortable, it was or how we thought the other person would react. We thought it was really important to be very open and honest.
Leyna: Sure. now are you as open and honest with the, with the other people. I am the people you meet?
Guest: I am
Leyna: and what's, what's the reaction been like,
Guest: It depends. I've had some folks that have been, you know, totally open to I've dated or talk to people who are also non monogamous, which immediately makes it easy. I've talked to people who have never been on monogamous before but who are open to whatever happens, and I have had a couple of people that I've, you know, gone on a date or two with who were then like no I can't do this like that's not for me.
Leyna: And what happens in those situations do you I mean is that a deal breaker for you,
Guest: um, if I date someone who wants to be monogamous with me, but is okay with me, dating other people, that's fine. But I don't want to do monogamy anymore.
Leyna: Have you gone out with people who said, Listen I really dig you I but I don't want to share you,
Guest: I just have one Yeah, for a little while. What do you mean for wages pay me for a little while.
Leyna: I thought it was a deal breaker.
Guest: Well, no. At first he seems like, you know, kind of like unsure, but like, alright, well, you know I like you so we can just talk about some more this takes us. Yeah. And then, and that kind of led to like well I might be okay if you are only dating other girls. And I was like I can't guarantee that that's going to be the case. And that's when he was like, I don't think I can do it.
Leyna: When you bring that up. If the first words that want to come out of my mouth is so typical. Right, men who are okay with their women being with other women but hey if you want to go to another guy that's a no go. So that's not just a, I mean that happens right,
Guest: that does happen, there are a lot of couples who are non monogamous, that have the the OTP. The one penis policy. Oh, that's what that is. Yeah, that'd be for, if the female in the relationship is bisexual or pansexual or whatever. It's okay for them to date or have sex with other girls but not other guys, and that would be a case that I would also not be comfortable with.
Leyna: So far, and especially because you guys are long distance, this seems to be working for you, but do you really think and feel that this would be something that works let's say if you were living together. Do you think it would still work.
Guest: Um I think that it would, for us we have made up a lot of the, like, imagine if scenarios. Neither of us actually want to live together. But we would do that like, imagine if we live together and such and such happened. So we've talked about like various scenarios. I do know, non monogamous and poly folks who do live together who are married, who have kids all of that, you know, and continue to be able to do it.
Leyna: How much of this is just purely a sexual thing for you, meaning. Do you love your boyfriend,
Guest: I do. I love him.
Leyna: All right. How about the other people that, that you've seen, or seeing we'll see is it just a sexual thing.
Guest: No. Sometimes there are those people, but there are also people who, you know, we can have super deep close relationships with I equate it to friendships, you have the capacity to love, multiple friends like deeply and have a very close connection with them, and you get something a little different from each friendship, and I don't see why as to stop there. Have you always struggled with non monogamy. Yeah, I think, even going back to being a teenager, I again did some cheating in 10th grade, I moved in with my dad and so I switched high schools, and for a little while I had a boyfriend at my new high school and at my old high school, and that wasn't like, just for sex that was actually two relationships, which obviously fell apart and because I wasn't doing it ethically. But I think even then I realized I had the capacity to, you know, navigate more than one like romantic relationship. I just didn't even know at the time that that was like an option. You know, as I got older, I've heard about it but
we're so inundated with monogamy, like that's how, that's what we all learn. That's how relationships are for humans. Leyna: When you were much younger, you didn't know that ethical non Monogamy was an option right is it now the only option for you. Yes. So you will not go back to a monogamous relationship.
Guest: No, I think, if my partner and I continue to be in a relationship, and there are points in time where neither of us have any other partners. So it might look like we're monogamous, you know, I still want the option, I never want to just close it up.
Leyna: Have you ever been, like, head over heels in love with somebody. Yes, where, like no one else catches your eye. Oh yeah. And how long does that last.
Guest: That's the thing is I think that you know at some point somebody else catches your eye in some way or another, you know, it could be purely looks, or you know like a co worker you get to know and you're like oh that you know I kind of dig this person, but you have to kind of keep the walls up when you're in a monogamous relationship. I feel like, honestly I have missed a lot of opportunities in my life for meaningful relationships because of monogamy.
Leyna: Now, let's say you meet someone and fall head over heels in love like we were just talking. And for that time being, that person will not allow you to see other people, do you see yourself making that kind of a concession. If the feelings are there.
Guest: No I don't. I really think that this is what I want for the rest of my life. And I think that, You know I can't see compromising myself anymore at this point,
Leyna: that's something that a lot of people don't realize until they're much older than you are right now, is that you're not going to do something just to make someone else happy you're not going to settle right and you know what makes you happy, when you're just going to go out there and get it and you're at the point now where you're going to get it with everyone's knowledge.
Guest: Right, yeah, that's huge for me too, even with people that I date who are also non monogamous, I refuse to date or sleep with, or anything with someone whose other partners don't know about me, I don't like the idea of being, you know someone's secret or the sidepiece or whatever, right, like I said I've cheated on people and I've been cheated on and I don't want to do that to anybody else.
Leyna: Um, boy, this COVID thing is kind of really.
Guest: Yeah, this is like the worst for us. Honestly, for all the non monogamous people, this has been rough.
Leyna: So let's put COVID out of our minds for a bit and let's talk about just safety, your sexual health, and living a non monogamous life where you're having sex with multiple partners and they're having sex with multiple partners. How can you be sure that everyone is being safe.
Guest: I mean that is definitely a big concern with people, I get tested pretty frequently. Also I like I'm on birth control. I use condoms with guys who are not my primary partner, you know, I am very comfortable having conversations about just about anything in the world so I have no problem talking to people ahead of time about if they get tested when they got tested what its gonna look like if we have sex, as far as all that goes,
Leyna: other than your non monogamy stuff. Is there anything else in your, your private life that that seems non traditional.
Guest: Definitely a lot and the kink aspect of things.
Leyna: Hey, you know I've had a conversation about kink, yeah. And kink is a spectrum.
Guest: Yeah, right.
Leyna: Yeah, like what I may find kinky, you may find all Yeah That's Tuesday night for me.
Guest: Right, yeah, that's true,
Leyna: what, what kind of stuff. Are you into
Guest: definitely big into like all the BDSM stuff. My primary partner and I have gotten into rope bondage a lot, which is pretty awesome, that's been a good time waster during like quarantine times left to learn new ways to tie me up.
Leyna: And is that something that you newly discovered, like kink in general. Yeah, or you know being tied up I mean I know that you know, we see it in movies and stuff but like, for instance, personally, I don't see the attraction I don't see how, how, or why, but so I'm trying to understand like how does that. How do you come about finding out that that turns you on, and say whoa
Guest: yeah sometimes that's all it takes. Yeah, sometimes you see stuff in a movie or on TV or like, you know, you watch a porn and it's on there and you're like I might want to try that, and I think that's I mean, a lot of that stuff I think started when I was a teenager too I would watch like late night HBO shows and be like one of the world's.
Leyna: Oh my gosh I'm keeping my kids off the TV.
Guest: I don't think they have those shows anymore they
Leyna: now are you talking about, like real sex
Leyna: oh my gosh I used to. And back then, watching real sex on HBO was like something like, holy moly, I know this is happening, and I can't believe people are talking about it.
Guest.: Right, exactly. And so I think that was like a big start for me it was I was like, Oh, this is like a world people are into like, look at all these things, and then the fact that nobody talks about it makes it a little bit more exciting.
Leyna: Do you find that what you had in your mind as far as people who are into some weird stuff. And the reality of what those people are really like is completely different, like are we talkin regular folk.
Guest: Yeah, it's kind of all over the place, you know, there are definitely the people who you're like, Oh, you're exactly what I thought you were. But there are definitely a lot of folks that you would never pay outside of like a party or an event or something before all of this business we used to go to some swinging swingers clubs in New York City sometimes, and people down there, run the gamut of, you know, who shows up, you know there are people that you're like, what it looks like you'd be like someone's mom at home making dinner, or whatever, right. Yeah, which is another thing I love about, about all of this is like, just like the non monogamous world is, you know the kink world is just something that like, anybody can get into,
Leyna: do you and your primary partner have sex with other people together.
Guest: We've only done that once, how come. Well, I'm more than anything, is the fact that if we're going to do it, both of us would prefer another girl, because I'm selfish. I can ask the guy and the girl at the same time. And it's actually pretty hard to find really yeah there's a ton of guys ready to volunteer at any second, but the women are a lot harder to come by for that stuff.
Leyna: So you've only done it once because you just haven't come across people interested in it.
Guest: Yeah, yeah,
Leyna: I see. But the experience itself was good.
Guest: Yeah, oh yeah, it was fantastic. I mean having a threesome is pretty good, no matter what, but um, I was actually like, very excited to see my partner with somebody else, which I kind of was a huge turn on. Yeah, I thought that that would be the case, but then you never know, you know, it could have started and I would have been like no no no no no just kidding, but um, right, it ended up that I was like oh no this is, this is awesome.
Leyna: So it wasn't just the fact that you are also attracted to women, so you were enjoying two partners that you were really into,
Leyna: but just watching those two was a turnon for you,
Guest: very much so.
Leyna: Clearly he liked it as well.
Leyna: Is he ever open to bringing another guy into it.
Guest: Yeah, he is.
Leyna: Oh, he's straight.
Guest: Yeah, he's not ruling anything out, but he's not seeking anything out either if that makes sense. Sure. Now would you be interested in something like that. Yeah, yeah, I've been in those situations before, like on my own. But for every woman out there looking for some sort of group scenario there's like 500 Dudes, so it gets old pretty fast.
Leyna: It's probably also why a lot of these alternative lifestyle websites or clubs, kind of frown upon single men right,
Guest: yep, because there's just so many, too many. Yeah, and that's a problem on dating apps too, you know, my partner and a couple of other guys that I know that are non monogamous, have a harder time than the women, finding people on like dating apps, and I keep having to tell them like it's not that it's not you guys, it's just the fact that there are so many guys, compared to women on there.
Leyna: Alright, so you said that you were thinking about and kind of plotting and planning a way to come out to your family about the lifestyle that you live, What is your concern about telling them, I'm not sure. Honestly, I think, like, are you scared to know, I think, I mean,
Guest: I came out to them as bisexual and that was fine. You know, they were like the only thing that changes and this whole situation is like the pronouns of who you're dating like otherwise, doesn't matter.
Leyna: Well, that's pretty cool.
Guest: Yeah, and you know one of my brothers was like That's awesome. Now you have like double the amount of people that, but I know that that they've always been super supportive of me. I don't think that it would change much I know there'll be a lot of questions which is fine, I get those all the time anyway. I think it's, well it's two big things for me right now. One is just the fact that there is a pandemic going on and they live in Arizona. And this is kind of the thing I'd like to do like when I see them, not like over the phone, right, so that's a big part of it.
Leyna: And are you concerned that they'll judge you.
Guest: They might. Because like everyone else they've only known monogamy to be the option. But, you know, I would love it if they just accepted it. If they don't, I'm still gonna do it. Sure. Um, the other thing that I struggle with the most with that is just, I get those feelings that I got before like coming out as bi to people like like the coming out feelings are like scary and weird and shifty. You know, and it's kind of one of those things where like already did that I went through to do it again.
Leyna: Right. But since you've already come out as buy, and you know how that feels to be able to come out. So you know what the payoff can be right. Yeah, I think it's the, the anxiety, you know, right. Do you have any final words or advice or anything like that on being non monogamous, ethically, I mean it happens, it happens more than people think. And yet, it's something a lot of people won't talk about
Guest: right, definitely true. I think that if it's something that people have heard about thought about felt might be the best option for them, then they should talk about it, you know, and explore it, you know Monogamy was forced on us a long long time ago and we didn't used to be monogamous, and it doesn't have to be the only way to go if monogamy is what's for you, that's fine. But know that there are other options out there, and there's a lot of us out here who are already doing those options. Who will accept you and talk to you about it. I mean, it's, it's fantastic. You know, we all have a lot of love together I don't know why you wouldn't want to just share it with more people.
Leyna: There's a lot of love in the room. Thanks Micki and thanks for listening, everyone. Hey, if you haven't yet I totally love it if you would leave a rating and review for the show on Apple podcast, or any other platform that allows you to do that but I don't Apple Sure does. I'll be reading them, and join the conversation on Twitter, find us at at consent adults. Now, on the next episode of Best Selling Christian author and ordained minister, who does not get the lifestyle, talks to us about how it fits in with Christianity or doesn't.
isn't there's something about coveting thy neighbor's wife. Of course yes I shouldn't want my neighbor's wife. But if I want to have 10 wives or again if I want to marry the whole family of the same sisters, that's totally fine because those things happened and. But what if the neighbors okay with it. Okay, go do 20 Hail Marys. And join us next time for Consenting Adults.
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