Ep 5 Elsa Ramon on Divorce, Dating, and Dildos

In this episode of Consenting Adults, host Leyna Nguyen chats with two-time Emmy Winning anchor and reporter, Elsa Ramon, who opens up to her friend about gaining confidence after 40, sexuality, selfish lovers, and feeling secure about making sure all your needs are met.

 EP 5 - Elsa Ramon on Divorce, Dating, And Dildos
Transcription:
0:02
Leyna:Welcome to consenting adults everyone I'm your host Leyna Nguyen, so the second week of our podcast launch was during the RNC, but thanks to a man by the name of Jerry Falwell Jr. and his wife, Becky. Oh, and the pool boy, the subject of non monogamy has been in the news. Now if you don't know anything about the store you can look it up, but just basically it's this evangelist who has now had to resign as president of Liberty University. Since the sex scandal broke. Once the sex scandal. While some call it a sex sin that his wife Becky was having a sexual relationship with this young buck, and he reportedly liked to watch them having sex from the corner of the room. Some people think that's awful. And some people think there is absolutely nothing wrong with it because, after all, there are three consenting adults what they do behind closed doors, is really no one else's business. Now the problem a lot of people have is the lying, the finger pointing, the blackmailing what many see as the hypocritical front, that this leader puts on clearly not practicing what he preaches. And that's another show, right, but it does stir up a lot of emotions and people, a lot of people have very strong opinions. In fact, one Nathan Hill on my Twitter said this to me, monogamy is a distribution system, men would be foolish to meddle with without monogamy, a few alphas might score all the action with the betas having to be content to watch, like, oh well, we made a system where most men get a woman. They don't have to share why mess with that. Well, we put this out for discussion on Twitter, and we've got responses I won't go through all of them but I do want to mention a few of them. Miss l responded by saying monogamy is a synthetic construct in consensual non monogamy you tend to have a primary partner with whom you discuss how one or both separately or together may explore their desires and feelings with other consenting adults, open communication allows this to work. Now Nathan's comment really struck a nerve with someone who goes by the name of sapphire moon, who had a string of replies and I'm only going to read the last one because I thought it was kind of funny, but sapphire Moon said, not to mention the wording he uses may be a clue to this gentleman's personality, and why he may be afraid of not being able to find a partner, monogamous marriage also responded by saying swinging offers the best of all worlds. A primary partner, which addresses his distribution and the connection and sexual variety with others that monogamy doesn't allow, There are all body and personality types in swinging as in life so even this guy could find someone. So Nathan, thanks for your comment. I don't expect everyone to agree with everything on this show and I actually really do appreciate the conversation so join us on Twitter at consenting adults, and thank you, Jerry Falwell for putting non monogamy, in the news. And speaking of the news. My guest today was a former colleague of mine at CBS in Los Angeles, a great storyteller, when it comes to other people. So I turned the tables on her and asked her some pretty personal things, and while there may be film at 11, you won't see this on TV, I was
 
3:42
Guest:    22-23 at the time, and How old was he about he was late 50s Yes. Are you serious, get ready. This is Consenting Adults.
 
 (Podcast Show Open)
 
4:28
Leyna:             Oh, my guest today is a familiar face and voice in Los Angeles Phoenix San Antonio a couple other cities you worked in before becoming a good friend of mine here in Los Angeles. She's a two time Emmy award winning anchor and reporter with a 21 year career. It's also remote everyone and I'm especially excited about this conversation because it's one thing to talk to someone who, like no one else knows because they're pretty much anonymous even if you tell them your real name. They're an anonymous person but when it's a public figure when it's someone other people know but don't know, it's a whole different conversation you're vulnerable because we're talking about really private things, and then I think it's a different experience for the person at home. So we worked together for how many years at CBS in Los Angeles
Guest:  about four years,
 
5:15
Leyna:    we only worked together for four years.
Guest:    Yeah, I know it went by so fast. I was only there for years.
Leyna:    Oh I thought for sure it was much longer though. Wow. Well, so, this speaks volumes to our friendship because we worked together for years. I didn't know her personally, I don't think I've ever met her before she started work at Kay cow. And yet, I feel closer to you than people I've worked with for 21 years, so they so that's. So that should tell you what kind of person else that
Guest:      Likewise, likewise,
Leyna:     A few years ago, we decided to kind of hang out in the Palm Springs area,
Guest:     yeah you asked me to go to Palm Springs
Leyna:     Yeah, and we really hadn't hung out much before that right and so while I was packing. I was really torn I was like oh my god, like, we're gonna hang out by the pool that's one of the greatest things to do in life. And I didn't know what swimsuit to bring, and so I texted her and I said, Are you going to bring a one piece or a bikini. And her answer was, girl, I don't even own one. And I thought, I want to be her when I grow up. Is that kind of self confidence and I admired you so much for that simple thing. And I said okay, I can hang with this girl.
 
6:29
Guest:     Yeah but you know what, it wasn't until after I turned 40 that I had that kind of confidence because you know you just become more comfortable with yourself, hopefully that's the goal when you become older, you just start realizing there things that just aren't as important to you, as they were when you were in your 20s and even your 30s that caused so much anxiety, like, you know, looking in the mirror and go, well if I stand this way I look really good or if I stand this. I look really stupid things like that you do when you're a lot younger I you know we all still look in the mirror and want to look good but there are things that just aren't as anxiety provoking as they used to be. So, when you asked me that I totally remember, I just thought, why would I have a one. I'm not going to give into the one piece to me, giving into the one piece is like giving into a minivan. I will never and I'm sorry to the people are minivans I know they're like offense to minivan no and people with tons of kids and dogs or whatever I get that but I can't. I just can't give into the one piece. I don't own a one piece.
 
7:32
Leyna:  Well i loved you from that moment on. You know, you're talking about. After reaching 40 And just having this different perspective of life, how things affect you differently, but not everyone who gets 40 or 50, gets to that point, And I don't know if it's because we work in the industry that we do that, people who are on TV or less, or whatever. We're not sexual beings right because we do the news, and no, I'm actually talking about there are so many women who are in their 40s who still care so much and get so wigged out. Don't do not perfect, in their eyes and everyone else's eyes and so one thing I really like about you and one thing that I have found about myself especially actually after quitting work is that, you know what, live for yourself. It's like if you're so worried about what other people are going to think you're losing out on a lot, you're missing out on a lot a lot
 
8:28
Guest:     a lot and I really do believe, for me, and I think partly for you too, that all these years that we've been doing what we're doing. Credibility is a big part of our jobs and our reputation on and off the camera because when people see you in public, whether or not you believe that your public life is private, you're wrong, it's all public life you and your private life as public as we see on social media and I felt, oftentimes throughout my career that I couldn't, I had to really mind my P's and I had to really be careful because I've been on one onset is one thing but being out in public and having people see you and how you conduct yourself as another. So I was always extra reserved because of that too. So, being under 40 Being in the profession we're in, I was just very reserved person. Yeah, so I just got tired of that
 
9:20
Leyna:    and then But then didn't You didn't, did it also affect your personal lives, because like, you know dating for me was very difficult.
Guest:    Oh yeah,
Leyna:     you, you just couldn't be a regular person because you're on TV and not, not just being on TV, because if you're an after a guy right right right right but for news people for journalists, you really do have to watch your reputation and just how others may perceive it whether or not it be true. So sometimes people see you as the way they see you on the news, and they don't see you as being this human being with wants and needs and challenges and problems like everyone else
 
9:56
Guest:     like we walk around with a glam squad and have people doing things and not the case at all. You guys are not with us. No, I cook, I clean the cat box I mean how regular can you get. 
 
10:08
Leyna:     ok so today we're going to talk about aging and sexuality. I know for myself and I know a lot of people and I think the general public, when they think of old people,
our parents or something. Do you remember when 30 Sounded old oh my god I remember being in junior high, trying to figure out the year that I was going to be 28 years old, And I was like, oh my god that's so far away no and 28 Oh my god, one day I'll be 28 That's so old and now I'm thinking, 28 was 20 years ago. And 28 Doesn't that seem like, Oh, child. Right,
Guest:      totally, completely. the are these milestone birthdays, but like for me 30 came and went, no big deal, right already came and went, no big deal. I just turned 50 And I'm still thinking, no big deal.
Leyna:    It just, yeah, if, in fact, I'm thinking oh my god, you, you young people don't even know what you're missing.
The best is yet to come, right,
Guest:     absolutely  so I'm 48, I turned 49 This year in May, but I was great with in my 20s I had obviously when you're 20 you have no sense of reality age your reality you know all that, when I hit 30 I was totally fine, was hit my stride having a good time. And then, it wasn't until I hit 40 For some reason 40 did something to me, and I just was so twisted about it, and it took me like a year to adjust to the fact that I was 40 but then, uh, what was it was it,
11:39
oh my god I think I'm actually getting old, I thought, well, I'm closer, I'm closer to the end.
I know that's terrible to think that was just such a stupid short minded thing to think at that time but you know it took me a while to get used to it and to adjust so it took about a year to get comfortable in my 40 skin, but once I did because I had my son when I was 41, just before my 42nd birthday. After that something just clicked and I was like you know what, screw it. What, what's the big deal anymore and I got over it and realize that what everybody else realizes over 40 that, wow, you're that person who knows so much more but still has so much left to learn but you don't feel like you're just this vulnerable person without the tools you need to thrive and be happy and succeed so

12:34
Leyna:    there actually, there's got to be a balance, so you can't feel like you know at all.
Guest:     No, you'll get smacked down and is that right right life has a way of doing that
Leyna:     yet, you have the sense of wisdom, you have this sense of, okay, I can take care of myself right, and I'll be able to handle whatever comes to my way, and yet you still feel like I'm learning new things I'm finding new things, especially about yourself. That gives you this drive, that gives you this passion to, and I know it's a stupid saying we're all saying that you lived her best life, but we actually are.
13:09
Yeah, and isn't that amazing.
Guest:     Yes, which we couldn't relate in our earlier years, but I feel like now, there's a point where I reach where I'm like, the things that really gave me anxiety at a younger age just don't affect me like that anymore and I'm really grateful for that because who wants to live life that way worrying so much about every little detail and what people think. It's really such a gift, it's, it's so freeing.
 
13:36
Leyna:     And the thing is it's, it's not like we've let ourselves go. No, there's a difference.
Guest:     There's a difference. Yeah, the not caring isn't like okay that's it we're done and we're eating pizza and drink wine every single day.
 
13:48
Leyna:     No, no, we're, we're taking care of ourselves but we're doing it for a completely different reason now we're not doing it for anyone else see is when you're doing stuff for yourself. And that includes sex,
 
13:59
Guest:     yep, before, I'm with the person I'm with now, I just felt like there was just so many people who are just so not only selfish lovers, but I allow that, because it's a two way street you can point the finger all you want, say, Oh, he was just so selfish to me at all. But I also didn't have the confidence to demand or let somebody know that this is what I want this is what I need, I wasn't secure enough with myself. That's the difference.
 
14:25
Leyna:     Women who are strong women who are independent women who are beautiful women who are successful, all of which you are. Other people can't imagine you not being able to voice your unhappiness, right. And yet, in our private lives we all do this weird thing in our head where we don't think we're worth what we're worth right,
Guest:     we're I mean we're, we're human, and we're women and we're just like everybody else, and that we have a persona. During our careers and when we're on camera, I wouldn't say I'm very different than I was on camera but my private life my sexual life. I just didn't have the tools that I needed to be able to speak up and say, I'm worthy to say to this person, this is what I want this is what I need. And if you get over that, no matter what age you are. Hats off to you if you're in your 20s and 30s and you can say this is what I want this is what I need. I am the I bow down to you because it took me a lot longer. But again, I think it was the influences of our career and having to be so concerned about our reputation and being proper and guess being proper and being so caught up in that, but I think for you and I, too, it was a cultural influence for me. Absolutely, yeah, having a Latino father who was extremely strict and had very strict views on sexuality and how his daughter should be and all that kind of stuck with my head do.
 
15:56
Leyna:     Oh no, hey, I'm kidding. I'm vietnamese We're not supposed to have sex.  we went from good daughter to you're getting old. When are you going to have kids. Well I got a lot of girlfriends with a lot of guy problems and I always say this, you only allow yourself to be treated the way you're treated. So once someone treats you wrong doesn't treat you right. It is up to you to do something about it. Right, and, and we've all been there.
 
16:22
Guest:     It took me a while to accept that, essentially, it's my fault too, because you could have somebody treated so poorly, and be either mentally or physically abusive or whatever the case may be, but if you allow it. It's a two way street and you continue with that person you marry that person you're marrying what you already know that none of that's going to change. No, so you have to take it gets worse it gets worse, I can tell you 100% Yeah, it gets way worse. And you have to take responsibility for that too.
 
16:55
Leyna:     You mentioned, you know, divorce, yes okay when you're getting into your 40s and 50s A lot of us have dealt with divorce so dating after divorce, I mean I've heard horror stories, and I've also heard stuff like Man, I've never had this much fun. What was it like for you.
 
17:10
Guest:     It was a little bit. But I wouldn't say horror stories but there were some days where I was like, Oh God, I, I was retiring seriously Yeah, hiring, which is when I totally cut it back because I see a lot of people that I know dating for the sake of dating, they feel they have to line up, you know, three times a week they have to have a date and have someone to go out with, but to me I find that so exhausting like putting yourself out there and it's like going to a job interview that many times a week. I just wanted quality not quantity. And so for the most part I think I met some nice people.
 
17:48
Guest:     Did you meet them online, I think people our age actually have more success meeting people online than the young Tinder people who just, you know, they're
17:56
just absolutely yeah yeah I met them online. I did online dating only, there was only one person that I met just met, I guess you'd say naturally. I was out with friends and met him and we dated for a little bit but it wasn't anything serious. But online, was the best because I felt like you know it was kind of a pre screening process I have romantic about it but it kind of was and then when you meet them in person, you get to see if they were what you thought right sometimes they surprise you that they're better than what you thought you were just the case. I mean, now we've been dating for almost a year and we met on a great app. And it's been absolutely fantastic because he's 52, I'm 48 and I think we both got into points in our lives where we're like, I'm not trying to impress you, this is my life. This is what it is, this is how many kids I have, if you want to be with me, this is all of it, and it doesn't do any good to hide it just be you.
 
18:57
Leyna:     You know when you were younger, you'd be like oh I don't want to I don't want to be easy, I'm gonna make him wait I will actually I don't know did you make guys wait when you were younger,
Guest:      I did, I did. Okay. Yes, like I had this one month rule, which is, I don't know and maybe I don't know, I didn't know Dave, I'm the guy I'm dating now who's absolutely awesome. I broke the rule, it was a little shorter than my ONE MONTH RULE but you know I felt like we both felt like that. We were at. Again, this point in our lives where we're not trying to impress each other we both are equally successful on our own.
Leyna:     No more games. Right.
Guest:     The second I detected I felt somebody wanted to play games, gone, I have no problem. I had no problem kicking people to the curb. Now I just have no patience for that anymore. My marriage. Patients are watching the tank now, which, you know, except for my kids, of course,
 
19:51
Leyna:     okay so let's then move on to the you know ONE MONTH RULE or however long it took you guys sex after 40. If you haven't hit 40 yet. I'm sure you've heard horror stories. Right. People hear it all the time is like people who are younger than us think it's over, what you're gonna find actually is that once you hit 40, when you're at this stage in your life, man. You're having fun, you've got more free time to actually take for yourself. I had Kayla when I was 39. So we both because of our career had children a little bit later, but in the early years, it's like it's really hard to be mom, and then be like some Sex Kitten, you know, it just, it was very difficult to separate the two, don't you think, yeah, like your boobs were like there to breastfeed your kids, they're not there to please anybody
20:42
know what it was like yourself.
Guest:    Yeah, you know. Yeah, there was a lot of pleasing yourself because there was just no time for anything else. You know sex after kids and then it's even harder when you have a full time career like we did having to work nights, it's, it's difficult to balance all that it can really wreak some havoc if you let it
 
20:59
Leyna:      Right, and so after we reached 40 It was, it wasn't up the hill. It was like climbing stairs but it was like, with each step, you felt like, Hey, I'm getting somewhere right with each step you would find something new. I mean, growing old physically kind of sucks sometimes I don't know if you like there are days when I'm getting up out of bed and I'm like whoa wait. And it's a slow you'll jump out of bed, and it takes you a couple minutes to get and then you got to have your coffee and yeah so there are days like that. 
 
21:31
Guest:     Oh sure. v look I you know, your body ages, if you got to give it a little time.
Leyna:      Now, in the bedroom, as you're older, do you think, does it take a little more time to get going? does it 
Guest:  NO
Leyna:     Really
 
21:45
Guest:      maybe I'm deranged I don't know. It depends, like, like anything in life, depending on the stresses of the day, right, yeah, Dave and I think for both of us, the chemistry has been the best for us that it's ever been with anyone we've ever been with. I said I think it really helps it also helps that we've only been together for about a year or so on the honeymoon stage. But I think that just the type of person I am sexually, if I'm that invested, it's much easier for me, but Sure, but yes I'm so do you mean emotionally, yes, emotionally invested leads to for me, Major physically invested in that other person so it's. And because Dave and I have our own lives and careers and everything we don't always get to see each other all the time so when we do it's like we get to take advantage of that
22:35
Leyna:      so there's there's some missing involved right, like you miss him, isn't that a nice feeling to miss 
 
22:41
Guest:     I love it, we text each other all the time when we can't see each other. Yes, it's through our parent, My parents and my kids, and myself. They're totally like, oh my god I'm going outside you two.
 
22:55
Leyna:     I'm not proud that that I ended up divorcing that is something I never wanted culturally personally is why I waited so long to get married. We remained, great friends we never fought, we didn't have problems but it was, you know him also being in the business not seeing each other, and I always used to joke. Oh yeah, it's great we don't see each other. That's why it's lasted this long. It's all bullshit because you need time with some Yes, yes, you talked about chemistry to me like chemistry and passion, you need it. And once it's gone. Oh yeah, you can't get it back.
 
23:28
Guest:    Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I've never been able to switch it back on. No, once that was chipped away, right. I can't go back to an ex ever No.

23:38
And there are ones where do you want your x in my book you are X ray, like Lizzo says only x is that I care about her in my fucking chromosome. One of my favorite lines are in her song.
 
23:54
Leyna:    I remember a time where I went back to an ex, I wasn't seeing anyone else. And what really struck me was he smells different to me, like when we were together, the scent of whoever I was with always drove me crazy like because like the pheromones, right, or their scent or natural samplers, or whatever cranked. And then once I was done, and I came back to them it just struck me as like he's was different to me now is my bad. No no no, he didn't smell. Bad smell different, and it was, I was very, very aware of that. I have very sensitive no I smell everything.
 
24:31
Guest:     So that's one of your stronger senses, I can't say that that played a major factor in the past, but it's so funny you say that because with Dave, he doesn't really wear cologne. But his sent to me in his shirts, sweaters. Oh my god, I love it when I'm coming upstairs to his room at his house. I can smell just his scent before, way before I even get to the room it's the weirdest thing because it never happened. Yeah,
 
24:55
Leyna:    are you a visual person, really drawn to total visual and touch, but projects with the lights on. Yes, on off what however, medium lamps candles whatever I've always been kind of me know that be completely dark. It's just, I don't know if it's from just culturally or how I was raised, but when I changed my clothes, I used to ask my husband to turn around, I'm just not.
 
25:18
Guest:     Yep, I can't, I think it's cultural two, because my parents, they were you know, a very typical salt of the earth, Latino people, I always thought it was weird that my mother would kick my dad out of the room so she could change or she'd go into the bathroom, he couldn't come in there if she was showering or, you know she would never go to the bathroom if, God forbid, I mean just none of this stuff like talking about sex and aging then
Leyna:    are you looking forward to menopause, that you're not menopausal 
Guest:     No
25:45
Not, not at all. My mom was really late so I guess, you know, apparently I've always heard you right, sort of, really, genetically follow your mom, but I don't know I'm kind of torn because every month I'm like, God, I just wish this frickin go away, right, but at the same time my OB GYN tells me she says, no, no, your parents, a good thing it protects your heart and protects this and it protects that so I'm kind of torn. But, you know, asked me at that time of the month and I'll say God, it was just freaking go away.
Leyna:     Have you heard or
26:16
got friends who've gone through it, and you know they're talking about not only the hot flashes and all that other stuff but sexual way some women, their libido, takes a hike, they don't care anymore. They don't want sex, and that becomes a problem because men still do their husbands still do. And I think that that's the reason people end up in open marriages or cheating or whatever because the woman just no longer wants it.
Guest:     Neither of us are at that stage. Thankfully, right.
Leyna:     But when you do get to that stage, and especially now with the medical advances that we have, there's help for women, you know there's hormonal treatments but there's also, if you don't have a libido anymore there's medical health for women to get it back, I would do it in a heartbeat if that have right, and I wouldn't, I would not have a problem going to my doctor who's saying hey, something's changing something right. There's a lot available to men. And finally, there's more stuff available to women to help us along.
 
27:17
Guest:     When we get there, we've done everything from crime to medical stories or whatever. Over the years, realizing how skewed medical research is towards men, yeah. You know how this drug affect
Leyna:     especially white men.
Guest:     yes, yes exactly which is exactly what we are why right we're two white men middle aged white men.
Leyna:     So now that's obviously changing, you know people are finally starting to look at this stuff saying, hey, women are said to when our libido goes it's not just men who have erectile dysfunction or problems sexually, we want to do
27:48
it too. Right. And the thing is, so it's it's the, I don't want it anymore. That is a lot more difficult to talk to your doctor about rather than a man saying I can't get it up, right, the problems that men and women have are different and we just need to recognize that the problems that women have are important, something needs to be done to help women along, otherwise you're just going to continue having men cheating on their wives I go on for younger women and there's anything wrong with that, but if you're cheating on your wife, there's something wrong with that.
 
28:19
Guest:    Oh sure, of course, you know, it's always comes down to something being missing I've always read when someone goes astray, and sex is a huge it's a small, well I think it's a small part of the marriage but it becomes the biggest thing in the world when you're not getting your shirts or shirt or there's a problem right it becomes, front and center, but it's the thing that connects, you know. Otherwise, what do you have a roommate. Right, that's the thing that separates us from all the other men that we know in our lives who are friends and colleagues and that kind of thing.
 
28:53
Le:    ynaThere was a day in the office I don't know if you recall that someone did a story on, I don't even know who was one of our reporters did a some kind of sex story for a sweeps period, and they brought back goodies and there was like lube and like Toy brand.
Guest:      I remember and I remember who it was and all that kind of stuff. I was really bummed because I got there late I got there late everybody got all the free swag, you know, from a sec story that she did it was like they were like games and things like that, like just things that were made sex interactive and I, and when all that stuff was gone, she had a bunch of little things to give away to everybody. Yeah I was bummed I missed it.
 
29:30
Leyna:     Well, when I got to the box all that was left was lube.
Guest:     That's fine. Do you still have that tube of lube.
Leyna:     Oh, there, there weren't tubes there little sample Oh samples so in, which actually is very good for traveling. Speaking of traveling. Have you ever,
Guest:     YES!!!   Okay, I could have probably jumped the gun, the vibrator in the face.
Leyna:     Yes, that's happened to you??   
Guest:     I've had the TSA go through my bag.
Leyna:      Oh, no.
Guest:     And I'm just standing there like, Oh, why did they. So what did they say this was years ago. So it was my check bag or bag that I was going to check in. And I was standing there going oh my god panicking, I was in my 30s panicking freaking the eff out and going, oh my god oh my god oh my god and he's going through it and there it is. And, you know what, I bet it happens. And that's exactly what I told myself I'm like, okay, but your giant be the first one that he's seen he's probably seen a bunch of them. And it wasn't just a vibrator, it was just a vibrator. And I just stood there and I was just kind of like, well it is what it is. There it is. And that was it and after that I really just had to tell myself I'm not the first I'm not the last right I can't imagine what else they're gonna see in people's check luggage.
 
30:55
Leyna:    Have you seen the pranks that people do where a friend will put a huge.
 
31:01
Guest:    No, but that's awesome. I'm gonna do that, a huge like you know two foot long dildo and do that to my brothers.
LEyna:    Wait, and then isn't your brother like a sheriff's deputy deputy.
 
31:12
Guest:   I'm doing it.
 
31:14
I'm here this, and this is the carry on luggage, so they have to go through TSA and everyone's got to stay on their ride while
31:24
I have to put fetish magazines in his bag.
Leyna:     Oh, speaking of fetish you have any,
Guest:      I don't know if this would be considered really a fetish anymore because there's so globalized now.
Leyna:      What is it,
Guest:      I like tying up.
Leyna:     You like being tied up.
Guest:     Yeah, I like to be the subservient one,
 
31:39
Leyna:     you know, I recently talked to someone who said the person who's being tied up, that person is actually the person who's in control.
Guest:      Okay, Why,
Leyna:     because you're the one who is saying, I want you to do this to me. I want this and this, and then I want you to stop. If I say ...do you have a safe word?
Guest:      No, don't. You don't have to say, I don't think I do anything that's so unsafe
32:03
that I need to save for it at this point I just, I do enjoy that though a little bit of like hands struggle that man, woman, you know power of the male dominance so over female I mean, you know there are people who have had all kinds of ways or men who love dominatrix women and I just, I'm not, I'm not that way I like it the other way around, but I never thought of it as we being in control.
 
32:29
Leyna:    Yeah, and the person who told me this is a certified intimacy coach. All right, this is good, I'd like to learn more. Are there any sexual kinks that you just don't get, Like, like, Okay, I don't get any kind of bathroom related,
 
32:45
Guest:    okay I know what I mean I know the Two Girls One Cup thing now. Why am I glad you haven't seen this is years old at all I have to say is it's really graphic and it involves the people who are into the whole dedication. Okay so, and I don't want to say, you don't want to do. Definitely not into anything like that but I also don't want to bash people who are.
Leyna:    No, bash them, That's weird,
Guest:   I'm more forgiving than Leyna is in that department but yeah it's definitely it will never it will never happen with me.
 
33:19
Leyna:     So anything bathroom related I don't get. I don't judge, I don't think I really know anyone who's who was into that at least no one has told me and you never know, you never that's the thing that I'm learning is that behind closed doors, you don't really know what anyone's doing,

33:37
for instance, you and I, talking about what we're talking about right now. Do you think people who watched us on the news would imagine that. Imagine that Elsa likes to be tied
Guest:      I like to be tied up and I you know I kind of like the, you know, struggle, spank on the ass and you know a little bit of a, You know my man being overpowering. No, and there's probably going to be people who are like me you know besides my parents. They'll never find this they can barely operate their phone, but, but yeah, I'm sure, you just have an image of people right, and it's not always what you think,
Leyna:     not at all in fact I think most people are much more fun than you think they are.
Guest:     Probably, yeah.
Leyna:     Okay, so your only kink is liking to be tied up.
Guest:     Yeah, I don't know if I find that kinky anymore.
Leyna:    No, that's kind of vanilla
Guest:    I kind of see that as vanilla I don't know you told me otherwise but I.
Leyna:     There are people who like to be choked.
Guest:      Okay, yeah, no, no. There are people you like to smack on the ass, but there are people who like like it kind of strong.
 
34:41
Guest:    Oh, yes, where I mean like where they actually punch each other. Oh like wait a minute, Weird. Become a rousing but again, I can't tell people what is right , or what is normal or what's not.
 
Leyna:    I think that the more you experiment, and the more you experience the more you need. I have friends who are powerful and wealthy, and the stuff that I hear them do I'm like, You know what only humans people do this. Like for instance, straight men. I've always known them to be straight, they believe they're straight, and yet they do things like they'll get a blowjob from a guy with no....
Guest:     See, but that are they really?  not that there's anything wrong with it but what's the harm then and saying you're bi you prefer women but every once in a while, I mean I think that
Leyna:      to me bi is having emotional feelings for the same sex, you know, not just the act, no because if it's just the app, then I think it's more like, try. i'll try anything.
35:43
 I don't know I guess, you know, I guess it's more of a over the identification like identify identify a straight identify as gay identifies by, and I think there are people who just sexually experiment without having any kind of emotional anything to the same sex.
Guest:     That's true. I guess they just see it as. So, if people are comfortable with that boy they have a lot of options. Leyna:     Right, well and the person I'm thinking about in particular so I've known him for decades, and always been with women, but has told me about these different experiences, he's had with men, and he said it was, what he did say the word fabulous, like I don't know.
Guest:    That's what that's, that's a key indicator. Fabulous.
Leyna:     But then, was also interested in like shemales and transvestites and always needed something weirder.
 
36:39
Guest:    Do you think that's though, just part of having so much excess money that there is nothing that is enough. Leyna:     That's what I'm saying yes and people who are rich and powerful always need more to stimulate them
Guest:     so is that is that truly freedom, sexual freedom, or is it,
Leyna:     I don't know, I would just like to have as much money as I could just find out I wish I had so much money I needed that much kink. 
Guest:     I'd like to do the research,
Leyna:      but I really do think that the social status, I think has a lot to do with the different things that people are into sexually I think
Guest:     I can see that.
Leyna:    Okay, so we talked about being tied up, there are things that I don't find exciting at all so the none of the bathroom stuff you know you'd like a smack on the side and you have to meet that just doesn't like great. God, I you know I had a friend who hooked up with a guy, and he smacked her on the ass and she told me about him like, yeah, so she says no, I mean, it was so hard she saw Stars,
 
37:41
Guest:    oh my god no okay no I don't want to. I don't want it like that but, again, for some people that's what they need,
LEyna:      right I thought for sure, that'd be the end of it,
no. So she starts doing research on BDSM because she's finding Okay, although she would wake up the next day with like black and blue boobs because he was so rough, you know, I, gosh,
 
38:01
Guest:     I'd say that's too much for me. I think the fantasy part of BDSM like what you saw on the wall a watered down version of 50 Shades of Grey. To me, that looks exciting, not the pain and the bruising
 
38:16
Leyna:   Can you understand how someone might go from where you are now to okay then, because you keep on pushing the line right.
 
38:23
Guest:    yeah I sure, I mean, David, I haven't gotten to that point because we're really satisfied right now. And, you know, we don't need to rock the boat, or anything but I imagine there will be a time where we have to find things that have to help keep the passion alive, which is different than love. So, there but you know you got to work at that too, right.
Leyna:     So, sex and love don't have to go hand in hand, right,
Guest:      of course not.
Leyna:      But good sex
Guest:     Yes, yeah, good sex without love is okay, for sure.
Leyna:      Yeah, I believe the same thing, you know, there are people who say you know they really can't enjoy it, unless they're really in love with the person to me that sounds like a 25 year old girl.
Guest:     It's very idealistic,
Leyna:     what do you think about sex for money money for sex, I think they call it contractual sex maybe
Guest:     sex workers?
Leyna:    There are sexual workers, where that's like how they earn their living and then there's like, I guess you'd call them freelancers, I don't know what to call them. It's not how they make their oh okay so it just maybe they have a sugar daddy.
 
39:24
Or, okay. Or maybe she Cougar, who is a means as a young guy, mind paying him or getting him a car
 
39:32
Guest:     inviting a cub over, Sure, just like men have been doing for younger women
Leyna:    for centuries your thoughts on that
Guest:     I, I'm, I have no problem with it, it's not your life. And if it doesn't impact you. Why do you care if somebody wants to change what they have for something in return you talk about sugar daddies or a cougar or a sex worker. Let him do it. If it doesn't affect your life, it's really none of your business.
 
Leyna:    Now there was a time, probably when I was younger, where I was so anti that I always saw it as, Oh gold diggers or men who are only after trophy girlfriends or whatever and yes, that's what it is. However, I think that as I get older and the more people I meet, and the more like situations I hear of, you know, there might be another possibility so they have an agreement. Sure, she's getting something out of it, he's getting something out of it. No one's being hurt, and I used to be the as a younger person, the person who judged that I added to And now, yeah, I think if you're not hurting anybody if you're doing it of your own freewill was a bit more power to you. I think also, our view is as we get older, we realize more how the world works. Like it or not, yep. If there is an exchange for something and both parties are happy. Who are you to say, that's wrong. Do you find that the sex that you're having now is completely different from the sex that you had when you were younger
Guest:     100% Not even close. Really, I never asked for what I needed, what I wanted faked orgasms, all the time. Do you remember the first time you had an orgasm with a partner. Yes, I just graduated from college, I met this older man. I was 2223 at the time, and How old was he about he was late 50s Yes. Are you serious, and I was very intrigued by him because he was just this very confident man he wasn't slimy or he was a gentleman. He wasn't a sugar daddy, it wasn't that kind of arrangement type of thing. It was really just one of those like, you know, young girl, learning about herself. He was old fashioned, we go out to a nice dinner and talk, and then we'd go back to his, he was his wealthy guy
 
Leyna:   Wait hold on a second. He's old fashioned we went out to dinner, isn't that so sad.
Guest:      Though I know you know now all you have to do is swipe and go okay come on over, I'm alright take some of the fun out of it. Personally for me but he was the first person that I actually ever experienced an orgasm with Was it during intercourse, no, I couldn't normally does that, no no no no, yeah, yeah, most women will tell you that you just straight intercourse isn't going to do it
 
Leyna:   the first time you had an orgasm was with this older guy, and using a sex toy.
Guest:     Yeah.
Leyna:    Wow, so you introduce toys with a partner at a young age. I mean that is something that I don't think most women are comfortable doing until they're like our age now, and it's also a time when men are more comfortable with it because a 20 some even 30 something year old guy you bring a toy into the bedroom and they are threatening us, in all fairness, if you were a 20 or 30 something year old guy and you take a look at the rabbit, wouldn't you be also threatened by that because you know you can't do that.
Guest:      Yes.
Leyna:      So any last words on growing old, don't be afraid and don't think of it as growing old,
Guest:    I don't think of it as growing old at all, so you feel like you're just still that same person who was you season. Yeah. You know everyone else he says all these cliche sayings like life's a journey and you know embracing blah blah blah, but it's true. This is a journey and if you choose to enjoy it I think life will be a lot better. I guess that's what the anything,
Leyna:      but especially sex.
Guest:   Oh, especially sex. Don't wait as long as I did to be comfortable with yourself because I feel like I lost all those years but I'm making up for it now.
 
Leyna:     That's Emmy award winning TV journalist Elsa Ramon telling it like it is. Thanks for listening, everyone. I'm your host Leyna when coming up next time on consenting adults, she's a school social worker who says she'll have her cake and eat it too.
Guest:     Both of us would prefer another girl, because I can have the guy and the girl at the same time. And it's actually pretty hard to find. That's next time on Consenting Adults.