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A woman's seemingly innocent game of footsie with a flirty female co-worker opens the door to non-monogamy. Both on their second marriage, Jess and Jeff find that having more sex is great... and having it with more people is even better. She's now free to explore her bisexuality and he's happy to go down that road with her.more sex is great... and having it with more people is even better. She's now free to explore her bisexuality and he's happy to go down that road with her.
EP 046 - Bisexual Explorations
00:00:00 - 00:05:02
Having only met her for ten minutes when the blindfold came off, I was between her legs. My previous marriages as well I cheated on my husband with another woman and I wasn't proud of. I'm still at proud of that. I would say that's my least proud moment. You weren’t planning positions you weren’t saying okay, well you do this. I'll do this. Everyone was just kind of in a big pile which was really awesome and then once the blindfold came off then it was sort of a free for all. So your first time full swapping is an MFM in which you did a DP. I’m starting to run out of consonants! Can’t always be looking over your shoulder and say well who's foot did I just kick or who's penis did I just grab a bad example. What are you comfortable with now? I'd say soft play with men that are into that. Situational. So we're talking, just like maybe oral? Yeah. I start to kiss her neck and her breasts and I go down between her legs and I’m performing on her and then he invites the other girl who then starts to do the same to the birthday girl. Lots of interesting looks from the waitresses. I’m sure they thought I was a prostitute. Get ready this is consenting adults.
(Podcast Show Open)
Leyna: My guest today are on their second marriage and they say it couldn't be better. She is forty four. A business consultant. He's forty six. He's an engineer. They've been married eight years but been together for twelve years. Jess & jeff are here to kind of walk us through their evolution as a swinging couple, so welcome to the show! First of all can you both kind of basically just describe to me the first marriage. I mean how was your sex life in your first marriage?
Guest: I would say nonexistent. I would say the same.
Leyna: How long were you married?
Guest: Seven years. I guess. It was possible sweethearts and had kids young. And then it just got into you know work and kids, and you maybe had sex once a month and even then it was kind of a struggle or a negotiation. Which was kinda weird. 'Cause I'm very sexual so it was something I was thinking. Well maybe maybe I'm too sexual. Maybe there's something wrong with me. Maybe this is how a marriage is supposed to be but it just didn't feel right for me.
Leyna: Jess, how about you?
Guest: A little bit different for me. When I got with my husband. I think it was strong in the beginning. For a short period of time and then when we got married it was sort of you know maybe two three times a week. I had this reputation for being oversexed which was shared with his friends quite a bit. So which is a really really strange concept for me because I didn't view that as something negative but it was a unique challenge.
Leyna: And how long were you married?
Guest: Together longer than married for sure. I think we were together almost thirteen or fourteen years. And then maybe married for three or four
Leyna: Knowing what you know now. Are you both kind of shocked that you're capable of staying with someone as long as you were without the sex life that you wanted?
Guest: Oh, yeah I would say so. I have no idea how I survived it. I think people just think it's the norm because if you talk to most of our vanilla friends really haven't changed. Most of vanilla friends don't have a lot of sex and don't really have very healthy sex life from what I would say. They're great people just they don't talk about sex or do a lot of it.
Leyna: So you meet each other right, you fall in love. How soon into your relationship did the lifestyle stuff come up.
Guest: Not for not for a while. We were together for seven years before six or seven years before we together for ten , and then got… married for six and got in the lifestyle. But I will say we became friends before we fell in love, and we were both going through divorces at the time we had young kids so we were arranging like a lot of you know we had our kids on the same weekends so we started talking about sex in our experience and our lack of sex for that matter so we we started to open up to each other sexually you know through discussion. Well before we got together and it was amazing how much we're aligned. It seemed in terms of you know things like kink and well it was a lot of conversation about how much we masturbated in fact because it was important.
00:05:04 - 00:10:08
And what porn we watched. So it sorta started that way.
Leyna: So the openness --the openness started very early but then how long were you together as a couple monogamously before you started exploring anything else?
Guest: Ten years. So as soon as we got together it was fireworks. We’re having sex every day. I think we're making up for lost time. Telling our vanilla friends about it and they just couldn't believe it actually. It kind of felt a lot like before we got together with our exes where people were again shaming you for being so sexual. It felt like such taboo subject. And you couldn't really talk about it. And I think the way it started for us was I've always known and been open about being bisexual which was another sort of achilles heel for me in my previous marriage because again I was shamed for that. Women in the groups of friends thought I was being-- I was showing off about my being bisexual. I was just being honest and so I was kind of like a put, put a lot of that side of my life away for for a number of years. And then I happened to meet a girl at work. She just, I became attracted to her. We became friends. There was a lot of conversation about sex. I remember coming home one day and saying I've met this girl and she is just so out there sexually open. I don't get it to the point where it's almost uncomfortable at work but I kind of like it you know. It became flirtatious with the two of us. And it got to a point where it was sort of not feeling like it was maybe ethical. Because I wasn't telling him what was going on and there was one particular event that I finally said. Okay I have to tell him. We were in a business meeting together and our boss is across the table from us and we were sitting there and she starts to play footsie with me under the table. I think maybe we were camping. And I told you about it. We had a couple of drinks and we were camping. Yeah I had met her before. Knew who she was and I knew that they'd been flirting and stuff which was fine. I wasn't upset it was certainly a turn. I just didn’t know like where it would lead right. So that's where we started talking about how a threesome. Well and that's how it came up because the in my previous marriage as well I had cheated on my husband with another woman and I wasn't proud of I'm still not proud of that I would say that's my least proud moment. So that was not something that I want it to happen in this marriage so I opened up about it and that's how it progressed. We talked about a threesome and of course he was all for it. And then I had told her the next day that you know we had had this conversation and had pretty amazing sex after having this conversation about bringing her in the bedroom and whatnot …And then yeah just kind of evolved from there.
Leyna: No no no no. No no no no. It doesn't just evolve from there. NO. Okay so you told the girl at work that you guys are like sex talking about her right. Did anything happen?
Guest: No so still a lot of flirting for a number of weeks and then you know just a lot more conversation she was married and then she happened to open up to us that she or to myself that she and her husband had an open marriage. And I had never heard that term before. I just didn't understand what that meant. I obviously heard about it but it didn't. It didn't sound right to me. So I'd asked her more about it. And she had shared that you know she would post pictures of herself naked and men would dm her and her husband would read it and it was sort of this like virtual cuckolding kind of thing that they had going on and I was just blown away by the concept and um…and you told me to research it. Cuz he's a researcher. So I said you need to go research this. This is amazing. I've never heard of this before. So hundred podcast episodes later…
Leyna: Right? Okay, so then tell me at some point you decide okay. We're gonna kind of dip our toes in . What did you do?
Guest: Unbeknownst to me. I went off on a business trip and I get a text from jess right before I present.
Guest: I set up our profile and I put on all our nude picks and I'm like what?! There’s 50 people in sitting in front of me. They're all staring at me and I get this text. So I'm lying I said I have a technical difficulty here, one second. So I’m logging onto this swinger site and I’m like going through like exploding with messages and stuff and I’m like-- these are fine for now but every coffee break I was like checking the chats. That's kind of how it led to our first date which then led to our first meet-and-greet greet which was our first soft swap. And it sort of just took off from there. Exploded from to there. It really did.
Leyna: Okay so you started with soft swap. Yeah. How long did that last for you guys. Guest: Well there was thirty six rules I'd created. Soft swap was one of them. It lasted. maybe three months. I think about three months. I don't think we ever anticipated that we would go beyond soft swap. So that I would say definitely there's a lot of things that we didn't expect. That came out of it.
Leyna: Like what?
Guest: The friendships the community. The experiences. Fantasies like meeting true lifestyle people and just the possibilities are endless.
00:10:08 - 00:15:01
Yeah as long as you meet the right people doing right. So we were not DTF couple where we would just go out to pick somebody up and have sex with them. We really want that whole friendship side of it. Yeah I mean, once we found that it was certainly exciting. The challenge is finding the right people.
Leyna: The three months later you decide you're gonna go a little bit further. Do you remember that first experience where it was full swap?
Guest: It's a unique experience because we would have to back up a little bit. We had a couple of soft swap situations and they were good in the beginning and they kind of turned bad Leyna: What do you mean by that.
Guest: I think we jumped in a little too quickly. We met this couple and we saw them too frequently, I think . And they were new too so it was the the newbies and the newbies. So you're both kind of trying to figure things out together. They had some issues. They had some jealousy and the relationship. That was uncomfortable. And you know he had low self-esteem which is a giant turnoff for me it. We just had to slow things down and be a little bit smarter going forward but then we met this couple about a month later we met a couple and they were a little bit more experienced albeit still new and it was just right. It just felt right you know everything. They kind of stood for from you know their values their character. All of those things were right. Their sense of humor because that's a huge thing for us and they exposed us to more. They were very good at communicating. So they talked a lot about their fantasies and other fantasies and introducing us to other people and they introduced us to another couple who invited us to participate in a surprise orgy.
Guest: Right. Happy birthday day! So that was that was unique.
Leyna: Wait… what was the situation. Who was it a surprise for?
Guest: Okay. So the the gentleman their friends; The husband approached us and wanted to surprise his wife. And we'd only met them once for like ten minutes. We get a text saying. Hey we don't know each other very well. But I'm trying to plan this special night for my wife and this is what it would be like. You guys will sneak into the room. And then I'll bring her in blindfolded and I'll tie her up and do a strip tease and then I'll take her to the bed and lay her down one we’ll all kind of approach her and then she'll feel all these hands on her and we will fulfil her fantasy. So that's that's how that happened.
Leyna: Well wait no, so that was the PLAN. Did it actually happened that way?
Guest: It unfolded like that.
Guest: Tell her about the start of it when you get to the room. There's that I guess the first piece was we were at a hotel and we got--the four of us had gone in ahead of the other couple. We’re like sexual spies. And we're going down the hallway and we turn the corner to go into this hotel room and we come around the corner. And there is a children's birthday party happening and all the balloons and children and me and the other girl, our friends were just like grabbed onto each other. Basically threw each other into the hotel rooms as quick as we could… Just cracking up. I was just like this cannot be my life they’re going hear everything This bedroom so… a little strange but I think in terms of the experience it was amazing. It was sexy. I mean worked better than we thought. Like a mean having only met her for ten minutes when the blindfold came off. I was between her legs so I was expecting like someone to hit me on the head like who are you what's your name why are you between my legs. So I was kind of scared when the blindfold came off but it was all good, she remembered who I was. I think she remembered my name—I introduced myself which is an awkward way to Introduce yourself again. Oh my name's jeff member? And then right back down. So out of our comfort zone for sure.
Leyna: You've got to actually walk me through what actually happened. So you're all in this room waiting for her?
Guest: We’re all in the room we had to be really quiet and we’re kind of in our underwear and the girls are in lingerie. And the birthday girl isn't in the room yet so we're kind of touching and kissing each other. 'cause else you gonna do you're sitting on a couch in a suite. Then all of a sudden we hear the door opening so we’re all are quiet. He leads her in ties her up. He starts to do is really sexy strip tease super hot.
Leyna: Hold on. Who's doing the strip tease? The husband?
Guest: The husband is stripping the birthday girl. After he gets your stripped he takes her into the bedroom we all follow and then he's starts to point to the women to join her on the bed. So then he pointed to me first, now I had never been with him either. I had never even kissed him so it was,
00:15:01 - 00:20:01
it was strange. I start to kiss her neck and her breasts and I go down between her legs and I’m performing on her and then he invites the other girl who then starts to do the same to the birthday girl and then you know slowly everybody starts to come onto the bed and she can feel all of these hands on top of her and then she you know she then she starts to smile and you can tell she realizes there's more people in the room and yeah and then she takes the blindfold off. I’m so bad at…
Leyna: You ARE so bad because at this like I'm starting to wonder what's going on at the kid's birthday party.
Guest: Yeah it was. It was extremely sexy. The husband was kind of sitting back kind of orchestrating the whole thing which was really really cool to see. 'Cause I mean obviously we hadn't been in-- I mean. We kind of define orgy as as anything like 5 plus. We’ve never been in an orgy. We've never been with six people before so it was really interesting to see the dynamic where he kinda sit back orchestrate everything-- his wife was loving it and we were having an amazing time. It all kind of happened organically. You weren’t planning positions. You weren’t saying okay. Well you do this. I'll do this. Everyone was just kind of in a big pile which was really awesome. And then once the blindfold came off then it was sort of a free for all for everybody to participate with each other and it was fantastic as orgies are, which are always my favorite. This particular couple that invited us to this surprise orgy has really opened our minds to a number of different things. So I would say about a week after that our friends reached out. Her in particular reached out to two of us and set up the scenario where she was actually going out of town and she wanted us to have an m. f. m. with her husband and it was the first time that they were going to play apart as well. I wanted to have an mfm. I wanted to experience that. Certainly but I am not at the risk of messing up our friendship. So we’re looking to go out and find single males at that point . We'd heard a whole bunch of podcasts where it's difficult to find really good single males in the lifestyle and stuff and we were way too new into it to kind of go online and say hey any single males out there? So this was kind of the perfect opportunity when you have really close friends that could lend a partner right? What we didn't want to happen was jealousy or anything like that because we definitely value the friendship with them. We do value the friendship with them. They’re definitely our closest friends in the lifestyle so you know there was a lot of talking and discussion and we ended up planning it and it was amazing. That was the the first full swap for myself anyway. And then after that you know.
Leyna: Oh my god there you go again.
Guest: There I go again, I’m sorry
Leyna: I'm okay so the wife goes out of town right. Was it as good and as hot as you thought it would be or more so?
Guest: I was worried I was kinda like oh I don't know but yeah it was amazing.
Leyna: How and why was it so amazing for you?
Guest: Going into it I thought that there would be jealousy. I thought that whenever you're going into a new experience you're really somewhat unsure but for me. I mean, seeing Jess getting pleased by two guys her enjoying it… there was you know different positions obviously you can do when you have two males so being able to experiment with that was such a turn on and that led to future fantasies and stuff that we did.
Leyna: Were you guys on opposite ends of the torso?
Guest: Opposite ends of the torso?
Leyna: Yeah there are some men who like don't want any incidental touching so when they do an MFM they always are at opposite ends of the torso so they don't ever have to touch. Guest: No and that kind of brings up a different topic. No I'm not uh…I'm pretty hetero flexible. And the other gentleman was too so we could touch and we--weren't you know standoffish where “don't come near me, don't go rub against me” that type of thing.
Leyna: Was it just incidental touching or was it something more.
Guest: It turned to more later in our relationship with that couple. So we had done a lot of talking about what is okay and what's not ahead of time just so you don't get in awkward situations or make people feel uncomfortable or make someone do something that later they regret they did it just because they didn't want to make everyone feel bad. So there was a ton of communication back and forth with what Jess was comfortable with what the wife was comfortable with and then what me and the other gentlemen would be comfortable with. So we were pretty clear going in that there would be touching an things like that. It eventually moved into more.
Leyna: What was off the table for that first experience.
Guest: Well I definitely wanted to do dp.
Leyna: OH! How was that?
Guest: It was amazing. It was my first time doing that. So that was a fantasy of mine that I wanted to fulfil. What was interesting about going into the whole thing was.
00:20:01 - 00:25:07
If I'm gonna do this. I'm going to be the female in this situation. I'm going to be in charge of what’s going to happenhere. So I really set up the mood for the evening. They asked me what do you want. How do you want us to go? So you know. I had a particular fantasy where I wanted to meet both men in this lobby bar at this hotel that we were going to be doing the MFM at. Very classy hotel. So you know. I wanted to meet them downstairs and I asked them both to dress in really nice business suits as we were going to have a business meeting. I was sitting there and all of a sudden. I had both men's hands on my knees and going up my thighs. A lot of interesting looks from the waitresses. Prett sure they thought I was a prostitute. No! Yeah then we headed upstairs. And then you know it just sort of all transpired from there.
Leyna: Oh my gosh. She did it to me again. Jeff, she did it to me again.
Guest: So we get her upstairs and so she's been in control this whole time and then so I guess the last piece of control that she has she kind of said, “okay I want to strip you guys so she strips both him and I and then at that point she kinda gave us control where we started kissing her, taking her dress off, touching her, putting her on the bed and then again it wasn't orchestrated we just started soft swapping so she was sucking on my dick, and he was you know going down on her. And then we'd switch or you know he'd moved to the nipples or what have you. We have lots of time so we're taking our time which was great. You sat back for awhile. I sat back watched for a bit and then the other gentleman could sit back and watch for a bit. And then finally he asked if he if he could enter me. And I said absolutely and I was a little concerned at the very beginning -- how you would feel about it certainly. We did have a couple of drinks that took the edge off.
Leyna: But this is also your first time full swapping?
Guest: Yes. Yeah that was the full. I guess the whole lead up to this conversation was Mfm . The full swap of course when we sex and it was great. And then I had said that I'd love to try this dp. And and we did that. And it was definitely one of my hottest experiences I would say.
Guest: Really sexy. Sitting back after and having a drink with everyone sitting there naked talking about the experience and so fourth. One of the things we wanted to know from her was what do you want. Do you want stories. Do you want pictures. Do you want video and she definitely wanted some pictures. I was definitely nervous the next day about her reaction. That was probably the biggest anxiety I had was just how she was gonna feel being away. I was trying to put myself in her shoes. How would I feel right if my husband is doing this and I have no idea what's going on.
Leyna: And what, she was probably turned on by it like she couldn’t wait?
Guest: She was. And I have to say and I value this friendship that we have with them so much. But I've learned so much even from her and she helped me push my boundaries. I definitely had a lot of jealousy in my previous life and even at the beginning of our relationship before we got into the lifestyle I was an extremely jealous person. Seeing the way she handled herself with such grace, I was like you know what-- I want to experience this. I want to push my own boundaries in this way and we did. Jeff played a part for me and it was the most amazing experience and just evolved my whole thinking and my kink in lifestyle to something I never thought it could ever be.
Leyna: So your first time full swapping was an mfm in which you did a dp. I'm starting to run out of consonants. So jeff you said that the relationship with this couple and with the man has since evolved some more. How has it evolved. What's different now?
Guest: I’d always seen myself as kind of like regular straight guy but then the more time you spend with couples and obviously guys and body parts everywhere-- it came up with what are we comfortable with, you know from a male perspective. Because the females you would say okay well you know I'm bi-curious. Or I'm straight or I'm bisexual which is completely fine and open pretty well in the in the lifestyle but in for males pretty well every profile says straight. With the four of us we had open conversations about what we’re comfortable with and it just opened it up so that we could explore a bit more. I guess I felt in our initial encounters with other couples that I didn't like the fact that the women could kind of touch and be involved with each other and the men had to stay six inches apart or twelve inches apart and there could be no touching if there was, there was something wrong. It just felt unnatural. Because everyone's entwined in these situations that you can’t always be looking over your shoulders and say well whose foot did I just kick or whose penis did I just grab –no that’s a bad example.
Leyna: So what are you comfortable with now?
00:25:07 - 00:27:01
Guest: I'd say soft play with men that are into that. Situational.
Leyna: So we're talking just like maybe oral?
Guest: Yeah and I mean this is all kind of exploration. So I don't even know if I would go and you know and have sex with a man or or what have you or or things like that. But everything evolves like if you have open minded people that you enjoy being with theyn the world's kind of your oyster.
Leyna: Looking back though, because every man that I've talked to who are okay with that can look back to before they were in the lifestyle and say “Oh yeah there was this.” Was there any of that in your background?
Guest: No that's weird I mean I've heard that on other podcasts and for me it was all of a sudden, you're there. You're in a sexy environment and there's a penis or there's you know a chiseled body or something. And you're like well. I really can't touch that. I'm like well why can't I? Like if I if I want to, and he's fine with it why can't we right? It's such a better experience when you're in a sexy environment, we're in a play session when there's no holds barred consent of course all there but you know things can just happen freely. It's so much sexier.
Leyna: And you can find this sexy couple on Twitter they’re @honeyspoonXI. Alright next time on Consenting Adults, it may seem like an oxymoron but the confident cuck talks about why he likes to be with his girlfriend just after she's had sex with someone else and why he thinks cuckolding is so misunderstood.
Guest: It's kind of like a steak where you have it still resting. It's still cooking a little bit on the counter. So I like to come in that time. That is where I thrive that is like… Let me go down on you and let me make out with you dirty talk you like use me however you wish and a lot of times that's when I’ll have sex. That's when I’ll actually have penetration. And I love hearing you know how much bigger he was. I love feeling much wetter she is.
Leyna: That's next time on Consenting Adults.
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