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Two women become friends and end up swapping husbands. Repeatedly. Madison and Kensie talk about enjoying sex with each other and other women but not feeling bisexual, as well as their husbands' willingness to helping them find single males to play with. Men, women, couples--their plate is full and that's how they like it!
EP 37 – Friends With a Twist
What is the Eiffel Tower. The Eiffel Tower is essentially a spit roast, except the men high five, to make the point over both. I'm interested in a physical interaction with another woman. I am not looking for a relationship with another woman.
We think their minds will be blown, if they knew anything about this. Yeah, so we keep it pretty private. And there was a little bit ofa language barrier which somehow made it all the more like exciting and hot because, like, there was just sort of like this primal physical connection, even though we didn't always completely understand each other, we look further single males, females and couples we're still very much focused on always playing together in the same room we take joy out of seeing each other be pleasure. He's very open to helping me try to wrangle up or scrounge up a few decent singles. My husband i and another single guy, are some of the hottest memories I can think of, I think it's more so just because, selfishly, all the focus and pleasures are directed towards me so that makes it 10 times harder. This is like our secret alter ego that we love. Get ready. This is Consenting Adults.
Leyna: I've got two lovely ladies on the show today, Madison who works in health care and Kenzie who's in education. They are friends with the twist. They're both married and they enjoy swapping husbands. But that's not all that they do. I'm sure that's not all that they are. So let's talk to these ladies and try to get to the bottom of this puppy pile and find out how they got here. So, how did you guys meet.
Guest: So we met through the lifestyle on a website that we both use here in our region of the country, there is the option to post what's called a hot date, which is when you are just sort of looking for someone to meet on a particular date, there's typically a location involved, But it's just sort of a, hey, we're going to be here or hey we're going out here, who's free who wants to join us, so it's kind of like an informal kind of spur of the moment situation. And actually, that's how we met. Kenzie had posted a hot date and Madison and Barry responded to it, that was how we met.
Leyna: Okay, but did you both have lifestyle experience before this hot date. (yes) It sounds like one of those like Tinder hookups.
Guest: I know it's risky Well it kinda is like you know what you're signing up for when you put the hot date out there. Right. So yes, I Madison I've had an experience of always so before we met maybe 10 years or so, and probably the same for Kenzi as well. So we're we both come well equipped to our hot dates like we knew that experience in the lifestyle before this, and I said, in our podcast too I didn't even really want to go out that night when we answered their hot day, I was just kind of feeling like I just want to stay home tonight, I'm not really sure I would meet new people, but my husband very pushed me to get out of the house, and I'm very thankful he did because I found my new best friend, like totally unconsciously. We didn't even, we didn't hook up the first night we just, we just connected on that level,
I guess, yeah.
Leyna: Was there an attraction between you two, or was it just a matter of, Oh, her husband's hot, and you're saying Oh her husband's hot too.
Guest: I think it was all around I can remember, they walked into the bar, and I thought, Yes, we're off to a good start, because sometimes you don't quite know with these hot dates and might not be somebody that you've already really kind of vetted or spoken with online. And so again, like it is a little bit of a risk, or it can be a little bit of a risk, but they walked in, they're both attractive and awesome and fit and young and fun. So that was encouraging all in and of itself, but yes, like I had an attraction to Barry definitely. I remember as the night went on, I remember being attracted, but I'm intimidated by Madison. She's a few years younger than me she's gorgeous and wonderful and fun, and Gary and I were still pretty new in the lifestyle at this point not not brand new, but you know so little nerves a little jitteriness you know, not really knowing what to expect, which is honestly part of the fun of it. But yeah I know at least speaking for me and I'll let Madison answer to there was definitely that instant attraction at least physically, you know, as we were getting to know each other that night even Madison Did you feel it.
Yeah, I felt it not only towards Gary of course right off the bat but also Kenzi and I must say it was not only just how she looked. Because obviously she looks amazing. I'm attracted to her physical appearance, but I noticed that night so many similarities in our personalities that like I felt an even deeper connection to her, like we were both the same awkward quiet at first, not kind of really know what to say to each other, we're just kind of like looking at each other Yeah Let's have some drinks and our husbands, they hit it off right off the bat, they were talking about and stuff. Yeah, we take a little while to open up, and the fact that we were both kind of the same, I was like, Oh, alright, I like this, I like her I think I could see, talking to her again.
Leyna: Who's straight and who's buying this whole foursome?
Guest: Both females would identify somewhere on the buy spectrum like by situational somewhere in that realm, mostly, and both males would be completely straight.
Oh yeah, I think the more that I think about it, I'm, it's definitely situational I maybe it just depends on the person, so that's why I kind of feel like it doesn't make me 100% bisexual. But for the most part yes, it's pretty much just meeting Kenzi who are really interested in exploring each other to same sex. Yeah, very in Gary have never explored each other.
Leyna: I've had other guests on the show, and there's been a lot of talk on social media and a lot of it comes from people outside of the lifestyle who don't understand it. And that is this spectrum of being bisexual, to me, I've always thought that if you're bisexual, then it means that there's some sort of emotion attached to it there's some sort of attraction to the opposite sex, whereas the act itself, I thought was separate, like, you know, you may be in a situation where it's really hot and sexy and you know you participate in the act. But it's not something that you look for or it's not something that you're attracted to do you know what I'm trying to say?
Guest: I think. And I would agree and I think that's why I have a little bit of a struggle, calling myself bisexual, on some of the swinger websites, I am not here to pretend like I'm better than anyone else. But if I was in the vanilla world as a truly bisexual woman, like I don't know that I would want like a swinger woman claiming bisexuality, When she really is just interested in women, for a 20 minute play session. Those are two very different uses of the word bisexual. So I certainly don't want to take anything away from those who identify as such. I think they get stigmatized enough as it is, they sometimes don't fit into the strange world, they don't necessarily fit into the gay world, they like so they have enough stuff to deal with, they don't need to swingers complicating things, but, yes, I mean for me as a swinger calling myself by whatever I'm interested in a physical interaction with another woman. I am not looking for a relationship with another woman.
Leyna: Right, okay…let's fast forward to the second dy our second date?
Guest: That year, we ended up at Kenzie and Gary's house, probably after some bar hopping I honestly don't remember how it started. That sounds about right. That sounds like something we would do, but we knew there was some sort of physical connection so they invited us back to their house and they have a hot tub.
Leyna: So my gosh is the hot tub, again!
Guest: I know we're such stereotypes is terrible. Oh yeah, they pulled all the strings got us into a hot tub got us naked. Honestly I think that first night we just kind of like, it was like silly playfulness like we were making out for sure. Yeah, that wasn't weird to me like that felt totally fun and normal like natural, but we definitely didn't full swap right off the bat, no, no, we did some soft swap play in the hot tub, I remember. Yeah, then we just kind of called it a night we went our separate ways and we kept in touch.
Leyna: Okay, well, hold on, let's rewind, just a little bit. So for anyone who doesn't understand or know much about the lifestyle can you explain to me the difference between, ike, it's been so long since I talked to anyone about soft swap I don't even remember what it means.
Guest Fair, fair. Yeah, sometimes I forget that people don't understand what I'm saying all this lingo, terrible- , soft swap public and this is really when you're interacting with another couple another partner, but you're not going all the way you're not having full on intercourse with the other person, it's more like oral sex manual stimulation oral stimulation, but not typically no like penis or vagina contact or anything like that.
Leyna: Thanks for straightening for everyone. Alright, so, even though you both are experienced, you're still kind of taking it easy right I mean the first date it was getting to know each other, second date the little soft swap, how long did it take you before, before the third date?
Guest: For a little while most of our dates were hanging out, we have dinner maybe we get drinks, and we go back to one of our places and we honestly did a lot of stock swap for a while. Yeah, Barry and I, we are totally open to a full swap, but maybe it's when we feel that deeper connection where we're like whom these people might like be friends we want to have in the long term that we don't jump right in the bed, like, we jumped in the bed but like not fully in the bed with another couple, and honestly I think Kenzie your comfort level with full swap at that time wasn't really there like you weren't comfortable with it yet so we didn't want to cross any boundaries.
Guest: yeah. Gary and I at that point, when we met, Madison a berry word, we didn't. I don't know identify as full swap yet, Madison and Barry were Gary and my first full swap experience, they popped our cherry on that. So when we met them like that really wasn't even on my radar table as an option. But as we got to know them, we built this connection and a friendship. It just felt like the natural sort of next step in our physical relationship together. So yeah, so definitely we did end up crossing that line and haven't really looked back since.
Leyna: So it sounds like there was some like courtship going on, right, it wasn't a hey I find you hot let's have sex. It sounds like there was like a courtship going on between the four of you. Guest: Yeah, a little bit, maybe not even on a conscious level but yes. Yeah, because like I said I wasn't really there yet I think Gary has been ready to go the whole time that I took a little not convincing like I was not forced into anything by any means but I just wasn't maybe kind of emotionally ready yet, so it took me a little bit longer to get to that point. But yeah, there was definitely a little bit of, you know, who are these people do we really like them, we want to hang out with them again where's this going. So yeah, I mean, that's fair to say even, I don't know if I would have thought of it that way at the time but that's absolutely fair. Yeah me either,
you know, I'm glad you said that now that I think back that's kind of pretty cool to think about, it's like we were, we were dating. Yeah. Wow, I never thought about that before.
Leyna: That was eight years ago. How far have you guys come, like what are you guys into now.
Guest: Well, I mean, in some respects, not much has changed for Gary and I, except maybe the timeline. I think that we can move to that full swap situation quicker than we used to. That's a little more commonplace these days, I'm definitely more comfortable with it, but honestly I think some of, I don't know what maybe makes us unique is that we really do value that connection with people, Gary and I don't necessarily look for just anonymous sex. We do want to meet and connect and chat with and hopefully make some friends and this lifestyle. So for us, that's important. And obviously that's not everybody's you know MO and that's totally fine but, in some respects, not much has changed but we do move a little faster than we used to I would say that much.
Leyna: Can we go back Kenzi and talk about your first time, full swapping. So, explain it to me how did it feel, did you, was it, everything that you thought it would be.
Guest: It was, It was absolutely a positive experience. And I really think that I have, Madison and berry to thank for that and their prior experience to thank for that. They made us totally comfortable. It really was smooth. I mean it was smoother than the first time I had sex as just like a vanilla teenager so that's pretty cool. No, I mean we were in their apartment at the time, I remember, this is so weird. I remember there being a lot of lights on and I wasn't used to that. And somehow that caught my attention because I was like a little self conscious about it, it was we were side by side in the living room, you know with opposite partners, so like everybody you know could see everybody else. It was easy I think to gauge everyone's comfort level. I think we can all kind of tell that everyone was okay this was a good thing. Nobody was uncomfortable. I mean nothing. I don't know, there weren't any like crazy positions like there was no sex swing there was like nothing quite that juicy perhaps definitely physically pleasurable, but also just, I don't know like emotionally comfortable as well because I think, because we had built that connection, we sort of had that relationship already, and that just made everything flow so much smoother.
Leyna: You hadn't done this before so did you and your husband, keep eye contact with each other is that how you kind of keep in check with each other, and then when you actually saw him being with someone else that way. What's going through your head is it oh that's cool or wow that's really hot.
Guest: That's a big deal. Yeah, I think for me it was more so that's cool. Personally, I don't know I'm probably like one of the swinger odd balls. I don't necessarily get turned on, watching Gary with another woman. I'm happy for him. I am glad that he's enjoying himself, but I'm not one to just kind of like sit and watch and kind of feed off of that. As long as like we both know that we're okay we're good. We don't really need to sit and watch the whole show. So I don't know I think for me though like having had all of our soft swap experiences up to that point, in some ways prepared me to kind of see that and experience it, It certainly is a little bit of a different situation when it's actually like, oh he's having sex with her, but at the same time, I mean it's, I don't know it's just kind of like the next level to the other things that I had seen him doing with, you know, Madison or, you know other partners before them. So yeah I mean definitely a little bit of an adjustment a little bit of Oh, okay yeah this is really happening.
Leyna: And then Madison. Are you more turned on by seeing your husband was someone else.
Guest: You know I must say, shockingly maybe to some people, I won't kind of the same as Kenzi I don't like fantasize about seeing him with another woman. It's not like I can think about that and masturbating by myself, it doesn't fully fully turn me on. It turns me on in the moment, more so in the fact that I'm like, This is so fun like this is so cool that we're comfortable doing this, I'm okay with it but I think he's more turned on seeing me with another, more than I am seeing him with another. It turns me on, but not quite to the level I think it turns him off.
Leyna: So you guys do a lot more than just husband swap with each other, right.
Guest: Yeah, yes, oh yes, so. Oh yeah. No, so I'm very and I, we, we were in the lifestyle before we met each other so we already kind of had some experience. And when our paths crossed in lifestyle. It was like a natural transition for us, we had both already full swapped. So when we got together that was like that happened a lot quicker for us than it did for Kenzie and Gary were kind of the same still we mostly we look further single males, females and couples we're still very much focused on always playing together in the same room we take joy out of seeing each other be pleasure. We're not to the point where we're comfortable meeting people on our own and doing things separately and I'm not sure we ever will be. I don't know if I'll get much out of that to be honest but, yeah, we're still the same like full swapping, but no pressure, we'd like to first just meet people out, establish a friendship, if it seems like that's possible, but we're not opposed to just playing on the first date and never talking again.
22:04 Is it just always one other couple or do you get like you know freaky like the other lifestyles or talk to where, you know, it could be, you know, like a threesome to them is like, eh.. you know,
Guest: Yeah, I mean we have definitely had those experiences. Yeah, that's it is absolutely fun. I just, ohhhh…
Leyna: I'm so glad neither of you are in sales. You guys aren't in sales right
Guest: No right i don't know can you tell? mean all I can do is talk about my little neurotic experiences, which I know are not representative of all Swingers, but I have to feel like there's at least somebody out there who can relate to my little progression. Yes, I think, like the more than for some are so fun and cool and enjoyable, but for me where I was going with this I guess like I almost like feel like overstimulated sometimes because there's just like so much going on and it's like you're interested in your own pleasure and like the person that you're with, but you're also like looking around to see like all these other fun sexy people having their own fun sexy experience and it's just like a lot to keep track of, but I imagine other people can just focus on their own pleasure and not be distracted by all of that, I just haven't mastered that skill yet. I don't know what you think Madison,
Obviously I think that's pretty normal. I feel the same way, when there's a lot of people involved. It's, I think I always in the back of my mind I'm like where is very like Who is he still here, like who is he with like controlling or super super jealous but I kind of just want to like see where he is and like who he's with and what's going on, but I also can get very in the moment and if I have one or two people going on with me at the same time like it yeah it'll distract me for a while. I think we've both together at some of our house parties we've kind of gotten into that whole group, group play scene. And even though some of the local clubs, yeah, we've been involved in that too, so that's fun but not our go to all the time. Yeah, that's fair.
Leyna: They're the vanilla people. And then when they hear your story, they're like, oh my god these chicks are wild, right, and then there's like most everyone else in the lifestyle. You sound very I don't even know how to put it…
Guest: Yeah we're tame we are tame swingers.
Leyna: Right you are, that's the word I'm looking for. You're pretty tame. From what I've
heard. That's not to say that what you're doing isn't completely exciting, what I'd like to know is, like if I asked you what is the hottest situ-- what is the most, you know, exciting erotic whatever situation you've ever been in in the lifestyle, what would that be?
Guest: Oh wow. Oh that's hard to pick, like one. There's like all this sex flashing through my brain right now. Alright I'm just gonna go the first time I think of it. This isn't my always go to but certain scenarios which is my husband, I and another single guy, are some of the hottest memories I can think of, I think it's more so just because, selfishly, all the focus and pleasures are directed towards me so that makes it 10 times harder. So I think those are some of my favorite encounters where it's another single guy with me and my husband. Yeah,
Guest: I think the one that jumps to my mind, which again, I mean like, physically speaking is relatively tame, but I can remember being on vacation in a location where you can do sexual acts in the nude and Gary and I were talking with another couple, and there was a little bit of a language barrier which somehow made it all the more like exciting and hot because, like, there was just sort of like this primal physical connection, even though we didn't always completely understand each other, and we were in the middle of a hot tub on almost a little bit of a pedestal, if you will, it was technically a soft swap situation there was, there was oral stimulation happening but nobody was having sex with the opposite partner, but just knowing that everybody was watching us in the middle of this hot tub, was really very exciting. And again, I mean, relatively speaking, like that's still pretty tame it wasn't even a full swap situation, but just kind of like that little bit of, I guess like exhibitionism sort of add another layer to it.
Leyna: When you're talking about being with your husband, and a single male, and your husband's completely straight, is their incidental touching what do you what are you guys doing.
Guest: Yeah, for Barry and I he tries to make it as very much, no touch as no guy as possible. He's just not okay with that. So we, we definitely do a lot of one on one and one on the other end, we haven't done a full like DP because obviously with two guys doing the double penetration, there's some touching evolved and he's not opposed to that we just haven't done that it's more if we do the double penetration with the guys with a toy and another guy in me, but yet they usually try to avoid each other at all cost is as terrible as it sounds, that's just, that's Barry's prerogative.
Leyna: How about you Kensie and Gary Do you Do you guys ever do the single male into the bedroom with you guys?
Guest: A little, so we, a little way she's trying, I'm trying hard, trying.
So actually, like, a single male was part of how we got into the lifestyle in the first place. And then since then we have tried to pursue that avenue, but it has not resulted in great success, Even with those experiences. It's similar to what Madison just described as much as I hate the terminology, you know, the Eiffel Tower or the spit roast like those kinds of things.
Leyna: I've heard I heard spit roast, what is the Eiffel Tower.
Guest: The Eiffel Tower is essentially a spit roast, except the men high five, to make the point over both you, yeah, which like to say it out. So, like gross and sexist and like, but it's funny. So there yeah there's like, there's an actual like high five like above my back essentially happening while I'm giving oral and receiving penis on the other end.
Leyna: I see.
Guest: Very French and sophisticated.
Leyna: Oui, oui. Okay. Do you guys bring females, just, just single females into the bedroom.
Guest: Oh the elusive unicorns, as we call them, yes, there's, they seem to be hard to find but yes, Barry and I have tried to reach out to single females, I think we got lucky with one like successful meeting prior to me and very being together I remember meeting a single female with my previous partner we met her several times, even to the point where I would just, I met her a few times on my own, but I feel like it's just hard to find a good reliable single female, even if it's just for like a one night thing, I don't know, but very night we are very open to it and we are seeking that out. It just seems easier for us to find the single males,
Guest: I don't know how about you guys. So Gary and I have had all of one unicorn experience in 10 plus years. Wow. And I don't even know, like some of the more serious winners might not even consider this a unicorn. But what happened was we met a couple and interacted with them. They broke up, and the female was still interested in communicating with us. So it was kind of like a unicorn byproduct or something I don't know like a pseudo unicorn I didn't know
Leyna: She was a grandfather unicorn.
Guest: Yes. That only ever resulted in one play experience, but it was very enjoyable so I would say it's something that we're interested in her. Well, we're interested in taking advantage of. But the pursuit of the unicorn seems to be very time intensive and difficult. I don't know I don't know that it's something we're necessarily actively pursuing but we're definitely open to the experience if it happened to fall into our laps.
Leyna: Are there any situations or any activities that you want to do that you haven't done yet.
Guest: Oh, of course, I would love to experiment, I guess we'll call it with some very light bondage. Oh, I'm not ready to sign up for the Christian Grey Red Room of pain. I would love to dabble in that arena with someone who knows what they're doing. I think I feel like that's key, but I don't I really I'm not even quite sure how to pursue that or where to start with that. And it's kind of like an interesting juxtaposition because I'm such a control freak, typically just in life in general, that to kind of like give that up and just be at someone else's whim is a little terrifying, but also exciting bondage is a good one, I,
I would suggest maybe like they have those under the bed or under the mattress like restraint systems and little like pals and stuff, I suggest you try doing my office thinking can be really hot in the moment, just so you know. But for me, maybe a goal, we've always tried, usually around my birthday is to try to get several single guys to come over. So again, bang, basically. I still haven't conquered that successfully and that's on my bucket list which is hard to believe, like you're a catch, why would men not be lining up for this, that you can you can't wrangle them all events, it's very difficult.
Leyna: How does the husband feel about it is this something you've already talked to your husband about and how does he feel.
Guest: Oh absolutely, he's a big fan of this idea, he does enjoy seeing me be pleasured by someone else he gets off a lot more than I do seeing him for someone else, not that I don't get off on it but he, he gets a lot more enjoyment out of it so he is very open to helping me try to wrangle up or scrounge up a few decent signals, we just tend to like back out at the last moment, but that's on my list and we are still trying to, I think a gangbang would be hot, if, if I could control the participants. Yeah, like, yeah, I wouldn't want to go to just a club, and just see who's there yeah I wouldn't really be comfortable with that, but yes, if I could hand select the participants that would absolutely be hot.
Leyna: Okay, so let's talk about your normal vanilla lives, you're in healthcare, you're in education I'm sure your husbands have jobs, do your family, or do your friends know that you're the lifestyle.
Guest: Oh, no, no, no, this is like our secret alter ego that we love. We have a pretty diverse group of lifestyle friends together that we mutually hang out with, But we also basically have a lot of the same vanilla friends for the most part, yeah. And we think their minds would be blown, if they knew anything about this. Yeah, so we keep it pretty private.
Leyna: And did I hear you say earlier that you have a podcast?
Guest: Our podcast is called a friends with a twist. And our goal in starting the podcast was really just to share our experiences, and hopefully provide some perspective, maybe some advice for people in the lifestyle, or considering the lifestyle. I think that we are probably considered to be pretty tame as far as swingers in general are concerned. So I think we might be helpful for people who are just getting in or just thinking about entering the lifestyle, just to sort of learn from some of our 20 Plus combined years of experience like we've seen some things we've done some things we haven't done everything, but we hope that we can at least provide that perspective, and obviously being to best friends and to females, we can kind of offer, offer that perspective to listeners.
Leyna: So that's friends with a twist. You can find them on Twitter, it's at. FWAT like TWAT but with an F. Underscore podcast.
Guest: We're the appetizer into the lifestyle.
Leyna: And after you're done with that appetizer if you're ready for the main dish. We've got it for you next time on Consenting Adults. Michael with 20 years of experience talks about his live-in girlfriend, his slave, and his job as a bull.
Guest: You know, the couple was looking for something specific you know, a third, and you just fulfill that role. And once you leave their presence, they go back to their life and you go back to yours.
Leyna: That's next time on Consenting Adults.
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