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With 27 years under their belt, this couple has seen, done, and learned a lot in the lifestyle. They talk about drama in the lifestyle, mistakes newbies make; and things they enjoy like swinger cruises to things they don't, like pain tools.
EP 33 – Yoda Swingers
Have you seen drama within the lifestyle because I don't hear too much about that and I'd like to really know. Yes, yes, there's what are we talking about threesome. Yes, yes. For some, yes, six some Yes, orgies, yes, public sex. Yes, yes. I don't know. Now I'm just finding out exactly how vanilla I am. What's the is it like like a daisy chain where it's like just a bunch of people who are all connected together, uncomfortable for a woman to do pretty much anything she wants with me, I am just a little unsure, doing stuff to her. Basically below the waist. Do you find that women are any better or worse at oral sex on other women. That little case and we're like, whoa, That's not our speed so that brings up, you know, when you have that conversation, but there was on the stage. And we've been on a cruise lifestyle cruise. Oh there's lifestyle cruises. Oh yeah. Tell me more. What's the buffet like he spends a lot of time over the last 27 years researching how to please women. Well, wait a second. Yeah, I'm talking to the wrong person then. Tell me a couple of things that, that you've found in all of those years of exploration, My dear head pain tool tools. Oh wait, what was your surprise to us to know that, and we don't like that. No, no, no, no, no, no, you got to explain to me what are pain tools. Get ready. This is consenting adults.
Leyna: My guest today have been married for 27 years, been in the lifestyle for 27 years, they've got two older kids, he's a computer geek she's a teacher and because she's a teacher, they're not out about their lifestyle. In fact, they go by the names. Louis and Clark. Let's talk to them about their expedition down this road called the lifestyle, you've been in it 27 years which is probably one of the longer durations of all the guests that we've had on the show. I believe you're the type of couple that another couple referred to as the Yoda swingers. Have you heard that before?
Guest: I hadn’t hear it but that sounds good.
Leyna: So you guys are the Yoda swingers which means you have had a lot of experience over a long time. And so I'm assuming you've probably got some, some good pearls of wisdom to pass along to to people who are either thinking about getting into the lifestyle, or who are new in the lifestyle right?
Guest: Yeah, absolutely.
Leyna: Alright, let's get to it. First of all, I hear a lot of people talking about okay this is how you get started right and it's a lot of it is the same. What I would like to know from you guys is, what don't you do like what are the things that you should avoid doing if you're going to be in the lifestyle.
Guest: The most important thing is you have to be on the same page and okay with your partner before you go out, so there's times when we're reaching at each other and we're crabby and I'm irritated or he's irritated or whatever the reason is we don't go out and we review our rules, before we go out and then if something changes during the time that we're out, we have a conversation,
right, that there's been times where we were at the club and just one of us wanted to leave early, right then and there really no matter what's going on. It's a magnifying glass. If you have any issues any communication issues any, you know, seeds of doubt or resentment or what have you, it will magnify it and make it so much worse. If you have good communication, you’re a pair and this is an addition to what you have, then it will make a fantastic. No, it makes it incredible, it's a big magnifier of the relationship.
Leyna: Sure, that makes a lot of sense. So let's say you have decided you're going to get into the lifestyle. Are there mistakes that newbies make?
Guest: Absolutely. And we were pretty lucky because we tiptoed into it we didn't really have anybody explain it to us and I realize that we avoided some major things. Certainly, there could be instances where your partner's doing something else with someone else and not realize it, and you had not talked about it, you know what your rules were previous to that night so you're like all of a sudden I was like, okay, is this okay now, and that can be a bad situation.
Leyna: Earlier you said that you go through the rules before the date, do you always do that.
Guest: Yeah, early on we did it, we're pretty comfortable with our rules now, We still check in once in a while, and what are those rules, we always make sure so I have a criteria for people that she can be with and she does the same. So we always check in with each other. If it's okay, no pain. I don't like certain things that guys may like to do or, you know, and I'll let the guys know that. Like what, I don't really like hair pulling, or, or any pain or spanking, things like that.
Leyna: Okay so you're saying that you don't want anyone to do that to her.
Leyna: What if she wants it done
Guest: She can talk about it and then yeah, if I trust the guy and if I feel comfortable with them, then yeah, it's a conversation, generally, before we do anything. I mean, we did have a little mishap or a couple had pain tool tools. Well wait what was a surprise to us to know that, and we don't like that.
Leyna: No, no, no, no, no, no, you got to explain to me what are pain tools?!
Guest: There was a like spiked pinwheel thing. Other poking and prodding things that they had like a little leather case of these one, we're at the club and we met them, and we went upstairs with them and they unzipped that little case and we're like, whoa, that's not our speed so that brings up, you know, when you have that conversation, but there was a mistake. We didn't have that conversation, and we don't have that many things, but that is one of them.
Guest: But over the years we did have things like, you know, first there was no kissing and then it was okay. Can we touch or not touch and those kinds of things,
Leyna: And 27 years later, do you have any of those types of rules anymore. I mean other than it sounds like you guys have veto power over the other ones playmate right.
Guest: Yes. Is that it, yeah. But other than that, yeah it's pretty open.
Leyna: Okay, explain your arrangement to me, what do you guys do what, what's on the table was off the table?
Guest: Pretty much, everything's on the table, except for pain and we prefer to stay in the same vicinity, with each other so we don't, we started out only same room. Now we moved to the same vicinity. So if we're in, say, an apartment one could be in the bedroom one could be in the living or more in the house, one can be upstairs. One could be downstairs. We like being able to see each other, experience it together and then we you know we have that Reclamation or reconnection, at the end with just us in that's really the experience.
We generally avoid taking one for the team, we do we avoid, avoid that. So if I like the husband and he doesn't like the wife, then that's it, that's not a possibility.
But in swinger speak back to the original question. I’m straight she’s bi. We don't like any pain or potty games or anything like that. We're open to just about everything we have done Hall Pass or solo situations. Each of us in the past but that's, that's a rarity.
Leyna: Before we can designate you as the Yoda swingers. Let's go down the list and see how experienced you are, a threesome.
Guest: Yes, yes.
Leyna: Public sex.
Guest: Yes, yes.
Leyna: I don't know. Now I'm just finding out exactly how vanilla I am like, what's the is it like like a daisy chain where it's like just a bunch of people who are all connected together. Guest: We've never done that no,
Leyna: Does that require too much bi for you?
Guest: No, just, it's a lot of coordination and get that many people together all at once. That's a logistical issue. Yeah, okay. When we say orgy it's just, you know, maybe three or four king sized beds together and just people everywhere. There was at one time.
Leyna: Hold on a second, how do you look where do you do this, how do you get three or four king sized beds together.
Guest: So typically, it's, it's at the club. The swing club, or on like someone's living room floor, they just throw down some sheets and it's a big, we call it a puppy pile.
Leyna: I've heard of that. What would you say would be like some of the wildest things that you guys have done?
Guest: The one time at the club where I think there were five couples all in the same room and it was, it was a lot of fun. There were just a lot of bodies and a lot of in the in the dungeon. Yeah,
yeah it was a lot of fun there was a lot of couples all when we knew and it was in the middle of winter kind of cold in there when we started, but by the end the windows were sweating so much heat generating.
Leyna: Okay, how often do you guys play so let's I mean pushing COVID aside, okay, because that like throws all the numbers off but how often would you guys do stuff like this. Guest: Once a month, maybe once a month, when we go to Mexico twice a year we go for a week,
Leyna: When you go. So, uh, do you go to lifestyle resorts or
Guest: (inaudible) primarily, and we've been on a cruise lifestyle cruise.
Leyna: Oh there's lifestyle cruises?
Guest: Oh yeah.
Leyna: Tell me more. What's the buffet like,
Guest: It's good, it's good food in their regular boats and regular cruises, they just take over the whole boat. So it's, you know 3000 couples.
Leyna: And what happens.
Guest: Everything anything that you want.
Leyna: Oh, tell me more, tell me more.
Guest: So like there's classes which I really like, there's different kinds of classes, there's speed dating for couples. There's BDSM rooms, there's shows dinners every everything that you would have on a cruise, and when we were not really cruising people but when we first went on it it's like Oh great 3000 couples on one boat. The problem is, there's 3000 couples on one boat so you meet somebody and then unless you say let's meet exactly back here at this time, you have to find them again. That's why we kind of like the resorts better because you see people, you know, from day to day and different places and you get to know more easily.
Leyna: So, but you can't be going on vacations all the time right you've got regular lives and you've got to stay by home base. How do you meet people, do you have regular couples you play with Do you still meet up with new people?
Guest: We typically meet new people at the swing club. The reason we don't necessarily online is because a lot of the guys are trying to talk their wives into it or there's just a lot of hassle, they don't show their faces, etc, etc. So, one of the things that, you know, we came across was we were going to meet a couple, but they never showed us our face so we're sitting in a bar on wait, is that then. Wait, is that, and you know what do we go up to someone that we suspect hey are you that swinger a couple, you know, right. So, it just gets a lot rid of a lot of the red tape, because the clubs require the guy and the girl to check in to say that they're going, and then they give them a location.
Leyna: Is there anything that you I mean, you guys have been in the lifestyle for 27 years now, done a lot of things but is there anything that you haven't done that
you'd like to.
Guest: Well, if he would like to be by himself with as many girls as I couldn't find
no with you, with me, and every year for his birthday. What do you want for your birthday yeah yeah I know me and five other girls.
Leyna: And that hasn't happened yet?
Guest: No, but we've had where like two or three and that had been more than happy with that, not just girls but then she's also had guys that way as well. So yeah, I think…
Leyna: Wait a second, so the wife has been with a bunch of guys.
Leyna: So they call that a gangbang Yeah?
Gest: It wasn't quite like that. It was more respectful than that.
Leyna: Well, because that's a slang and it sounds awful. Right, but there are some women who don't mind that term at all, it's like yeah I'm down for a gang bang.
Guest: No I wouldn't, I wouldn't say it was, was that I mean the waves were there, we were just swapping people, I wouldn't, well you've had multiple men. Yes, I have had multiple men.
Leyna: Okay, so that's a gangbang right?
Guestt: I guess if you want… yes it is.
Leyna: What is it called when it's a guy like if it's just a guy and a bunch of girls.
Guest: Uh, heaven? I don’t know.
Leyna: But, So, when, when it's okay so if you're with a bunch of girls. I mean there's only so much you can do. At the same time, right.
Guest: Yeah, that's true.
Leyna: So what's your thing what's what's your thing, what is this thing that you want, like a, you know, a bevy of
Guest: I am a pleaser, I, I literally get off on pleasing other women. So, that is what excites me. I love seeing her pleased. I love pleasing other women. I love just a pile of bodies that I can touch and do things to and vice versa. So certainly the woman would be playing with each other as well. Yeah, I just like to have, you know, all possible hands and other appendages, working at the same time.
Leyna: Okay, so like you would 90% of the male population right.
Guest: Pretty much, yeah.
Leyna: So I heard I heard a little sigh or something when he was talking about that, how do you feel watching your husband please other women.
Guest: Oh, I know how good they have it so I think it's great.
Leyna: So there's no twinge of anything now. But is it a turn on too, I mean there's one thing to…Oh, that's great. He's having fun so is she, there's another thing to like , kind of get off on that right?
Guest: No, I enjoy watching him. All of it. I enjoy all of it, he, he spends a lot of time over the last 27 years researching how to please women.
Leyna: Wait a second. Yeah, I'm not, I'm talking to the wrong person then. Tell me a couple of things that, that you've found in all of those years of exploration, my dear.
Guest: So, like I said I'm a computer geek so I do it and I'm a bit more in the science field so I do a lot of research. There's a lot of things. Women, at least 80% of it is on their head as far as engaging them, making them laugh, but just developing a rapport, being able to touch. You know, those kinds of things, is in the relationship, obviously they're not as visual as men. But then, you know different things to do to women, as far as, you know how to go down on them, use your hands, erogenous zones beyond just the normal areas, those kinds of things like where like the back of the knee. If you take a light, light, run your nails across it or your tongue, the crook of the elbow. Trust me. In the elbow in the crook of the elbow or on the pulse by the wrist. Those can be very erogenous in the right situation You of course have to build up to that but women it's all about the build up.
Leyna: I assume you practice on your wife.
Guest: Oh yeah, I massage her regularly over the years sometimes he's down there and I'm like what are you doing, what it, what are you doing. Trying something.
‘Cause he’s trying something new.
Leyna: Okay so you're, you're, you're like, you're teaching them whether that works or not right?
Guest: For me. Yeah, right, everyone is different. Yeah, sure. All right.
Leyna: So we recently had an episode talking to a bisexual man. Very interesting conversation. And one of the things that he said, which I think a lot of people have wondered over the years and that is, you would think that because the man has the equipment, he'd be really good at oral sex on a man right because he knows how those things work and what feels good. And he said that's not the case like some of the worst oral sex is from men. So I want to ask you then with women since you're bisexual so are you, where are you on the spectrum of bisexual like emotional attachment bisexual or are you just in it for the sex, like, like it's just play.
Guest: I would call myself a bit of a pillow princess. If I could find a really a girl, we've had a couple times or there's the woman has been very aggressive, which is good for me because I'm really not. I like the touching and the feeling and the kissing and the sensual part of it, but I think maybe once or twice have gone down on a woman, because I don't know what I'm doing. I’ll teach you. Clark will teach me.
Leyna: Well wait hold on so you say that you don't know what you're doing but. But you do you identify as being bisexual?
Guest: I would say I'm bi comfortable. I wouldn't. I'm comfortable for a woman to do pretty much anything she wants with me, I am just a little unsure, doing stuff to her. Basically below the waist like I'm good with everything above, and then it just usually I mean we play as a foursome so usually that's the guys like to see that and watch that and it gets everybody in the mood and then we kind of move on to bringing in the men.
Leyna: So then you're it's really just part of the part of the play, you don't enjoy it like your husband enjoys pleasing a woman,
Guest: No, he is, he's phenomenally into pleasing women, right,
Leyna: And and and it turns you on right to, to please a woman, it like, you can be good at it, and it be a factor of just having done it a lot. Or you can be good at it because you're really, really enjoy it and the receiver can normally tell, right, like does it turn you on to go down on a woman does it turn you on to be doing things to a woman.
Guest: Oh yeah, absolutely. And I think it's part of the connection too because if there's not a connection and that's happening, Then, I'll end it is, it's kind of like, okay, you're not into this and neither am I if you're not so let's, let's just stop. I don't know I guess it's part of the connection with me, is to be able to see enjoyment with her.
Leyna: Okay, back to the wife, the pillow Princess wife, same question that I had discussed with the bisexual male. And that is, do you find that women are any better or worse at oral sex on other women.
Guest: I haven't had a lot of women go down on me and no one can compare to Clark, but he's been doing it to you for over 27 years right. I know everybody better than she does. Uh huh. Yeah, that's true. The women who have gone down me I have to say I've definitely enjoyed it. But, I mean it takes practice to get to know anyone's body yeah, in, that's one.
One thing a lot of couples think, Oh, we're gonna meet somebody tonight and we're gonna have a fantastic time and everything's going to be the best ever. Well, quite honestly, you meet someone new, you need to learn their body needs to learn what they like, what they don't like. Right, that's why you like having longer term friends to get to know their bodies,
part of the lifestyle for me isn't necessarily the sex, the sex is a bonus, we are looking for people that we can be real with and talk to and a lot of it comes down to for me if the guy makes me laugh, and says I have pretty boobs and likes to feel them, they’rere golden. But, it's like having the first time sex with, with a foursome it's not necessarily going to be the best sex ever cuz you haven't had sex with them yet.
Leyna: The first time you have sex with just one other person, Friday, right, very often is not what you expect, because probably before you have sex with a person in your head, you've already had sex with them right and in your head, They're fabulous. And then, and then normally it takes some time for them to get to where they are in your head so imagine when you've got four people coming together. Let's talk about what happens when let's say you're in a play situation or you're out on a date, and, you know, things are great you've met them before maybe and you know you're counting on getting some tonight. You know they say something political and it totally turns you off. How do you get out of that situation?
Guest: Typically we just, like, we're not feeling it tonight or we just want to be with each other tonight or something like that because, again, she's the one I'm going home with forever. She's the one that I'm committed to, I don't care what else, anybody or, you know expects or anything. In fact, you know, we came across a situation where the guy was like oh no you promise you have to, and you know that's really where I stepped in, I'm like, No, she doesn't have to do anything and if you want to talk about it outside we can we can talk about that. So, we're committed to each other first and we always have that ripcord or emergency port to say no, we're not doing it tonight, and nobody should feel pressured into it and any couple that does, You don't want to be with them anyway.
Leyna: Everyone that we've talked to has been very positive. I mean yeah they're funny stories of, like, you know, the new couple pulls out heavy artillery and it freaks the hell out of you and you run out of the room, but have you seen drama within the lifestyle because I don't hear too much about that and I'm like, I'd like to really know.
Guest: Yes, yes.
Leyna: What are we talking about.
Guest: All right, so I can give you certain situations. So typically everyone avoids it. And if you go to a resort or a club, you can see it right away. So for example, we were at a resort, and the guy had brought his wife, but he didn't tell her where they were going just said that they were going to Mexico, but now lifestyle is. I found this out by, you know, she was new at the bar and I might be the pool bar going over and talking to her and trying to be social, and she just looks at me and says, I don't want to be here and I go okay that's sad. You got fun with that. And then it kind of goes around to everyone and everyone sees that they're the drama couple. Nobody wants to be around them, nobody wants to deal with that. So they really kind of become ostracized, you know a lot of single guys or married guys that, oh, if I just get her into it, how can I just get her into it. If you're that drama couple if we're planning new tricks or anything, not honest, you're not gonna find anything because nobody wants to deal with that.
Well then, we've been at the club where there's a couple arguing in the play room, And someone else says, Yeah, take it out of here. Because nobody wants that. And then at the end Mexico there was a couple. We met them just as they arrived and we were, you know, they seemed really nice and they looked really nice and then the husband and I started talking and he started telling me this was their last ditch attempt to save their marriage and me his whole life story, including the baby had with another girl and what he kept asking me what should I do, I'm like, I think you really should talk to your wife and then I'm warning, all the other couples, you don't want to get in the middle of that. So sure, once again it's a
magnifier and, you know, people like, oh, this will save our marriage. No, it'll, it'll just make it worse, it's not on solid ground in the first place. And we know couples that we've been with and played with and are now divorced, but surprisingly, from my research the divorce rate is not any higher in the lifestyle than it is on the national average.
Leyna: It sounds to me like the, I don't know if it's the majority, but a lot of couples, going into the lifestyle, are able to do it because they have a very strong marriage. Absolutely, yes. Right, and it sounds like really that's the only way it's gonna work. Fortunately, a lot of the people who are listening to this podcast, are not lifestyle owners. Some of them don't approve don't agree, but they're open minded enough to listen about it. And one thing I hear a lot, and you know I start defending it where people start thinking I'm a swinger because I'm, I'm, you know, are not arguing but debating with them about it. And that is a lot of people who are not in the lifestyle say Well, Clearly, you don't love each other because if you did, you wouldn't want to have sex with other people and you wouldn't want them to have sex with other people.
Guest: I would reply that we actually love each other more. Don't you want to see your partner, fulfill and be everything that they want to be in life. Don't you want to see them happy. Don't you want to see them excited. Honestly I consider it somewhat stupid that it's not like a partner's not gonna look at another person, they're gonna have fantasies, they're gonna have wants, I would rather be part of it, and enjoy with that person then to ignore it and have them cheat, etc. lie. I appreciate your show a lot because it normalizes the conversation, the LGBTQ community has gotten a lot of respect and has gone through a lot of struggles and over a lot of years, but this lifestyle is still something that's in the closet not talked about, and it's not for everyone. Some people they just can't. That's not in their belief system, which is fine, but talking about it at least accepting the people is, is good,
and it isn't as if you have to, you know, drop your keys in a bowl when you walk into a party. There's people in the lifestyle who just like to watch other people they never touch anybody who will be watched, or be watched it, it, there are so many levels of the lifestyle. If it enhances your relationship if you watch another couple have sex and then you run back to your room and you have really great sex with your partner, that's great. If it enhances what you have, then that's the whole purpose of it. It's enhanced our relationship, and we are better communicators for it. And, you know, when things happen. They happen if they don't, I got a sure thing when I go
home, I would say we're more committed to each other, no matter what the subject of divorce or someone cheating on someone else, never even comes up. This isn't cheating. No, No, it's consensual non monogamy.
Leyna: Louis and Clark, thanks for sharing your explorations in the lifestyle with us best of wishes to you. All right, next time on consenting adults something different. I talked to an icon in the adult industry, Britney Andrews answers all of my questions about being a sex worker, including how some couples in the lifestyle choose to hire their partners.
Guest: If you are going to fuck your friends you know do it after you've had some experience. Just having sex with, kind of in a safe environment and I think that's what a sex worker provides is a safe environment, you can tell the bench to go when you want to yourself with partners right, it's like okay let's get a girl, but I like knowing that I have the control that I can tell him we're done with her. It’s time for her to go.
Leyna: That's next time, on Consenting Adults.
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