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Brian and Brenna met over a mutual interest in BDSM but became committed BECAUSE of their desire to share their partner. They talk about compersion, royalty perk, jealousy, and other factors at play when married couples get into the lifestyle.
EP 25 – Front Porch Swingers
Leyna: Our guests today are going to try to explain something that is very hard to explain and hard to understand, to people who are not in the lifestyle. Before we get to that just want to give a quick shout out to a few people who are new followers on Twitter and also to kind of ask you a question about a comment that someone made Mark Eberly, who goes by, at Patsy news, underscore calm tweeted that Leyna when is the new Howard Stern of shock radio. Wow, while knowing a little bit about Mark, I'm not sure that's a compliment, but Howard Stern is very opinionated, I don't think I come across as very opinionated, I think Mark is a little shocked at the subject matter of this podcast. I know it's not for everyone, but I'm also finding out that it's actually for a lot more people than you would expect, Mike and Wendy responded to that tweet saying, with a little more class and a hell of a lot better looking like thank you very much. By the way, Mike and Wendy were our first guests on Consenting Adults they were episode one, so if you haven't taken a listen to that episode, that's what started this all so go back and listen to that. Alright. Today's guests are going to try to explain how and why people get pleasure out of seeing their partner with someone else.
Guest: For me I think it's really the, what is referred to as the royalty Perk, essentially the idea that that Brenna is so desired by other people, and has the opportunity to engage physically with them, but at the end of that experience, always comes home to me.
So let's get to it.
(Podcast Show Open)
Leyna: My guest today are a couple who've been together for three years, Brian is 50 He is a chef. His girlfriend, Brenna is 30 she is in sales, they are in a non-monogamous. They are in a non monogamous relationship, and they are so open about it, they love to share about it and we've got a lot of questions to ask you guys, thanks for joining us. You guys are there in Montana, how big is the non-monogamous community in Montana where you are?
Guest: very, very
small, which I'm sure would not surprise very many people we have absolutely met some amazing people in our area but typically we travel to, to experience, at least, large scale events and those types of things,
Leyna: Even though you're open about it the community that you live in is not very open about this sort of thing, right.
Guest: It's very underground here we live in a fairly affluent area and I think because of that, there is very much the need for discretion, and there's a desire to appear to other people a certain way so we definitely deal with a lot of that. I know that there are people in our community who are aware of us and our lifestyle and our work, because we're also, we have a business that is non monogamy related. So we haven't experienced any direct backlash, but it's also not something that people are very open and willing to discuss it's a pretty sex. Not sex negative maybe sex neutral area,
there's a perceived need for discretion as Brenna mentioned I think it's really just, it's more contrived than anything is about image here unfortunately people are more concerned about appearance as opposed to, you know someone's caliber someone's character, it's unfortunate because a lot of what we run into locally,
Leyna: right and and actually it's it's understandable. Yes? I mean, this is, even though it's something that is a part of many people's lives. People also judge, there are a lot of people who, who don't know much about the lifestyle, maybe people who are in it who aren't willing to be as open as you guys are really appreciate you, you're talking about this now. So your, your you've only been together three years. Did it start off as a non-monogamous relationship?
Guest: It did not however it turned into that very quickly I think we were together for probably five or six months when we first had our discussion or our initial discussion about getting into the lifestyle so it did not take much time. We actually started out as a BDSM couple. Oh, really went into a relationship with that as the primary reason for us, starting a friendship that then turned into a relationship, very quickly,
Leyna: Were either of you in non monogamous relationships before you met each other?
Guest: I absolutely was not I had never, in fact, I didn't really even know what non-Monogamy was until a few months before I met Brian, I didn't realize that that was a thing I grew up in Montana, and was not exposed to any of that kind of stuff Brian had a very different experience sexuality related.
Yeah, from a standpoint of ethical non monogamy, my experience was professional, let's call it I was the director of operations for a large adult entertainment Hospitality Management Company based out of Texas. Ethical non-Monogamy was not something that I was unfamiliar with, but I was not in a relationship, necessarily, that was, you know, ethically non monogamous in nature, I was I was I were very familiar with, with the lifestyle.
Leyna: Okay, so then you met each other and not long after dating, you had the conversation. Can you tell me about how that came about?
Guest: I think both of us were just so, so basically what happened was when we began our relationship, and like I said, going into it with the idea of being in a BDSM relationship, we found ourselves talking about everything because both of us had been in fairly unfulfilling relationships prior to this where we held a lot of things back about ourselves. So when we were finally in this relationship with a person who was non-judgmental, you know, for example, I would tell Brian about a fantasy I would have and instead of being met with disgust or judgment it was, oh that's interesting. Tell me more. And it was just this eagerness on his part to learn about me, and that's what opened everything up, we found it found ourselves telling each other, absolutely everything you could possibly imagine, sex related and not, and because of that I think the first conversation that we had was in a fantasy discussion one night laying in bed, and I let Brian know that I would be very interested in seeing him with another woman and he said, Oh, that's really interesting, I'd be really interested to see you with another man, and it just went from there
10 days later we had our first experience so we're pretty impetuous, that way we don't have a lot of patience.
Leyna: Yeah, how about okay, We need to go back. First of all, for people who think that I may have just let you gloss over. What the heck is a BDSM relationship I mean, where did you find each other, what were you looking for.
Guest: So I first came to, I came from Montana from Texas after having been here 30 years, and moved here to have to completely change my life change the way I was living change my profession, just, just to get out of the rat race really more than anything, and I decided that I was done with relationships that I found on fulfilling I'm four times divorce, And all of those marriages. Well, I would say 100% of my fault because I was always restless and never comfortable in a relationship because I could never be myself, you know, entirely. I decided I was not going to ever do that again. And we met, honestly on Craigslist under casual encounters that which is no longer in existence, under the guise of a DOM sub, you know BDSM arrangement, that was the, the entire, you know entirety of the relationship as it began,
it was really meant to be more of a casual thing both of us were at a point that we did not want to get into anything serious, we wanted to have fun and we wanted to really explore things for ourselves and not necessarily with another person, so we really went into this thinking is going to be a friends with benefits type of arrangement yes maybe we'll go on, you know, dinner dates and those types of things, but neither of us were expecting this to be our lifelong relationship, it turned into that but it really started with the idea of Brian, providing a certain level of what structure I
guess protocols and structure having to do with the BDSM world. We both have experience or had experience in BDSM prior to meeting, and that's really where this, this kind of this whole thing was cultivated.
Leyna: Okay, so then you weren't together five or six months before you had this this talk about mean fantasizing and maybe opening up the relationship, a bit. Brian, you had a little bit of knowledge already on non-monogamous relationships, Brenna you had none. So this was just really a fantasy for you. How did you. I mean, okay so 10 late days later you kind of jumped into it right. Can you tell me about that first experience?
Guest: Sure, we talked about it on our show, it's the most it's a it's still the most downloaded episode of all 100 Plus episodes. You know we were talking about it we had that conversation about we'd like to see each other with potentially other partners. And instantly, the juices started flowing, you know, the ideas started flowing, and I started to seek out partners for alternative partners for each of us, as it happens, I came across a single gentlemen that really checked all the boxes that I felt that Brenna would be looking for. And I communicated with him a few times I met with him privately, before he ever had the chance to meet Brenna I brought it to her, and she was 100% on board and the afternoon that I met him, We all met, and later that evening. Brenna and he had their first hot wife encounter.
Leyna: What’s a hot wife?
A hot wife is a woman that engages sexually with others and typically the male half of the couple were not engaged. So, this is a situation where either the man is watching his partner's female partner with another man, or is completely separate which is typically how we play Brian will be at work, or I'll be on a work trip or something, and that those are the times when I'm engaging with other people.
Leyna: Okay so, but there has to be is there a turn on for you, Brian, to know that that Brenna's with another man.
Guest: Yeah, and there's a number of different, there's a number of variations as to why men find these types of situations, you know, exciting and arousing and for me I think it's really the, the, what is referred to as the royalty Park, essentially the idea that that Brenna is so desired by other people, and has the opportunity to engage physically with them, but at the end of that experience, always comes home to me, and I get the benefit of the you know the energy kind of transference that takes place between she and a partner, and that it's all really for my benefit that all the things that are taking place inside of this extraneous relationship this physical relationship outside of our bedroom, that's all done for the benefit of my pleasure. And that's really where I derive the most excitement.
Leyna: I get that and I would get it if you were there watching. I don't understand, where, how does that work when you're not there watching, you're at work and she's off playing.
Guest: I have been in the same room, a number of times I've been in an adjacent room, kind of listening as opposed to watching. I've also been multiple, multiple states away when she's been with, with other playmates. And really what it comes down to is, it's that anticipatory piece right it's the it's the buildup, if I'm there, it's exciting because I can watch it and I can hear it and I can, I can get a sense for what's going on, obviously in the moment, but if I'm not there, it's the not knowing what's happening, that's the most exciting, because the reclamation between Brenna and I, is really what this is all about. I refer to her playing with a pole at work but the single male, as the cover charge, simply to get to play time, Because when we have our reclamation sex, that's when things really heat up, particularly when either she or I have been with, with a single person, and the coming together for us is really, it's the icing on the cake.
Leyna: So it's really charged up right.
Leyna: Is there something about taking that twinge of jealousy, but not letting it get destructive and hurtful, but letting it be an energy that drives this passion that you guys have for each other genders and what I'm trying to say,
Guest: Yeah but Jealousy is a strange thing, and we can talk a little bit about what is the jealousy as opposed to what we refer to as those gut check moments. I personally don't possess a jealous, ounce of energy, I simply don't, there isn't anything I could possibly conceive of that would make me jealous, is as it pertains to, you know, anything Braddock could possibly do. I just don't I don't possess. The only time Brenna has ever kind of gotten that real gut check moment was this was an absolute benign interaction between myself and one of our female playmates, and it was simply my holding her hand basically to keep her from slipping on the ice. Brenna has seen me engage sexually with a lot of women, and never saw me hold anyone's hand before in the street and she got this kind of like, like you said, it's kind of this twinge like this kick in the stomach like who I really didn't, I didn't like that very much. Meanwhile, an hour before that we were having she and I were both having sex with this gal, you know, in our town and we were out to dinner afterwards. And that's when this happened. So, it's a, it's a very, it's kind of a unique set of characteristics to be in this space, you always learn something new, as you go along. But that's where those, those jealousy or gut check moments come in and when you least expect it.
To answer your question a little bit more specifically though I, I personally feel, I don't want to speak for you, although I know you feel this way because we've talked about many times, it's actually the opposite of jealousy that really fuels things for us is the conversion aspect, it's the idea that I derive pleasure from Brian's pleasure and vice versa. And we're able to go into sexual interactions with that in mind, that is what really drives everything for
us. Yeah, we know we know instinctively that we're going to have a good time, most of the time when we're playing with other people whether it's couples or singles. We always the, the, the end result is always the same, we always end up together, and that's really the goal. So whether we're with couples or single people whether we're together or apart. We know at the end of the evening, we end up together. There's that Reclamation time, and that's what matters the most is what fuels this entire process for us.
Leyna: Okay, so then when you come back together after, you know, one or both of you have been with other people, what happens, do you actually talk about it is that part of the play with you guys that is to talk about it describe it, listen or is it all in your head.
Guest: So typically it's during playtime that will describe what's, what happened during our time apart so for example if I go and play with a single gentleman, I come home, we are, as Brian and I are be engaging sexually, and it's that dirty talk that's happening in that moment and that's how we discuss it now. Of course we always follow that up afterwards with less clouded discussions, more rational discussion so we communicated about it in a lot of different ways but I think the typically the first time it happens is when we're actually engaging in sex with each other.
Leyna: So, but you do talk about it.
Leyna: That's part of it.
Leyna: It turns you on to hear about what the other person did.
Guest: Yes, one of the one amazing interaction, whether it's myself with, with a single person or a couple of Brenna with a single person or a couple. Any one, you know, amazing kind of interaction could fuel us sexually for weeks at a time, just really kind of replaying those things together, and a lot of times now what's been happening in the last few months. Well, of course, before the world caught on fire when nope we couldn't play with anybody, right, you know, Brenna would tell me things as we were kind of recloser, we were having that report reclamation time, but we'd leave some of the details out, so that when we actually record our podcast from poor swingers. I was hearing a lot of the details for the first time while we were recording. And that really, then what you get is the reclamation initially. And I'm hearing it again now for a second time, but only in greater detail, and that just fuels us again.
Leyna: okay Brenna I have to ask you them. You've never been involved in anything like this before. Okay, it's just a fantasy, you have your experience. Can you describe to me what that's like I mean experiencing it for the first time,
Guest: The very first time was confusing, I'll be honest I, As you just mentioned I had zero experience. I also, you know, I mean there are so many societal things that we're told so many ways in which, especially as women were told to behave. You know sexually and otherwise. And so I think that first experience had me going, what on earth that I just do, you know, And the other thing is Brian went to work early the next morning after that experience, we really didn't have a lot of time to discuss it. And so it was in the middle of the day that I finally texted him and said, so, you know, give me the bullet points. How was that for you. And he said, Well, how was it for you and I said it was amazing, but I you know I don't know how you feel about it and he mirrored back that it was an amazing experience for him as well but I think that first time there was some guilt there until he really reaffirmed that it was good for him. I was thinking, oh my gosh, am I selfish, should I have done this, that there's so many different things that go through your head, you know, now of course we're at a completely different period in our play where I feel so empowered by all of it every single time I'm with someone else. I feel like a boss and it's just this amazing feeling of sexual gratification that I know Brian supports and therefore I can fully revel in it and enjoy it.
I can tell you from the standpoint of female empowerment, watching Brenna kind of grow in these three years over the time we've been in the lifestyle of a time we you know we started or we got into the lifestyle about five months into our relationship. As soon as we started in the lifestyle we started our podcast, almost, maybe 30 days, or 60 days later. So we've been chronically in this journey the entire time, and watching her grow as a person and not just a sexual being. But a confident woman. You know when we first got together, when she's very kind of slight she's a little she's five foot by foot one and a half inches tall. She was demure relatively soft spoken, and, you know, wasn't really going to command a room, necessarily, when she walked into it, she was going to kind of be a little bit more reserved. Now, she's the life of the party, if you want, professionally, she takes over, you know she doesn't have any problem, negotiating and talking with sponsors and partners of our brand and, you know, she just gets involved, you know, headfirst, you know, and in a lot of that comes from the confidence after having been in this lifestyle. She's got an amazing self awareness now, not just sexually but really about what she's made of.
Leyna: And what was that first experience was it just having the guy come over, Brian, were you involved at all.
Guest: So we actually I met this gentleman, he came to meet me at my place of business. We chatted a bit, I felt really comfortable with, you know who he was and, you know everything about you really chose I said check all the boxes, well dressed well spoken, he was articulate, he was hygenic, he met all the physical criteria, as well as cerebral criteria that I thought, Brenna would need to meet. I asked if he wanted to meet us later for a cup of coffee when Brenna got off work, he said absolutely. And we did the three of us in there for, you know, at a coffee shop, not too far away from where we lived. We were living in a downtown area at that time, we all hit it off, I excused myself to take a phone call or work for about 10 minutes to step outside, and when I came back they were engaged in conversation and everything was going well, Britta had said to me, you know she intimated to me that she wanted to move forward. So we left and walk back to our place. And, you know, we made a drink, little small talk, and very quickly Brenna left the room changed into some lingerie came out and got him into the bedroom, they went and I was sitting in an adjacent room, almost in the doorway between the bedroom and the living room so I could see here every.
Leyna: Wow. And had you done that before.
Guest: No, no, I had no.
Leyna: So this was your first experience as well.
Leyna: Can you describe what that was like because I think that most guys, the thought of like being in the next room while their girlfriend or wife is in the other room with another man, you know, they'd want to punch a hole through the wall.
Guest: Yeah and that's unfortunate. And people get a really strange misconception of what it must be like to be a guy that quote unquote allows you know his girlfriend or wife to do that. It frankly is the most ridiculous thing on earth. If you're if you have to have a high level of confidence, and not to mention self-confidence, to engage in this lifestyle and if you don't have that if you're not a humble person. If you don't have the ability to, you know, really just think outside the box of normal societal behavior. This isn't for you and for me what I saw was my significant other, enjoying herself physically and watching her, gave me the sensation that, you know, I get to enjoy her physically, obviously, but you're watching it from the outside it's almost like you're looking down on it, and that's a whole different level of a site, and the idea that I'm watching this kill alive pornography with my partner involves right in front of me. That's a game changer. You know when it comes to sexual behavior between two people.
Leyna: And Brenna How about you, what was the first experience when Brian was with someone else completely separate for me, you know, just the first experience where you knew he was with someone else.
Guest: I mean the first time that I saw Brian engage with another woman was actually a time we were with a couple, and so the, the other husband and I were engaged with each other while Brian was engaged with a woman, and honestly it was fireworks for me it was amazing to watch. We also really liked them, which is something that is very important to us, so that made everything feel much more comfortable but just the actual, you know, physical acts, seeing him engaged physically with someone else was mind blowing to me, and I think the main reason for it was because, like I said, I loved the idea that he was getting all this pleasure and also that he was sharing pleasure with someone else that I get to experience and I know how great it is to be with Brian so him being with someone else, and her getting that pleasure I'm like, good for you. I'm glad you're getting time for you I know it is
the first time we were with a couple was actually our fourth experience most of our first three experiences in this space were Brenna with another man. Well that's the majority of our play. And that's how much we played that hot wife space, almost not exclusively, but, uh, but a lot of our play is hotwife however that first experience with that a couple. I was concerned because Brenna had never seen me with anyone else before, and I knew everything was going to be okay. When that the female half of that couple and I were physically engaged, and we were on a platform bed, and her head was moving very slowly toward the edge of the bed, and she was absolutely going to hit her head on the wooden frame, Brenna put a pillow under her head to keep that from happening. And I, that was the moment I knew that this was going to be okay. That is lovely. Yeah, she's very considerate
Leyna: That is, that is awesome that you guys have found something so quickly, with each other, having not been together very long. It's difficult to gauge how it's affected your relationship, since you kind of didn't have much of a relationship before starting all this, now that you're in it. Do you see yourself going back to anything you knew before this, like, is this a part of you now?
Guest: Yeah, it's interesting because for so long, we always said, if one of us wanted to step away from the lifestyle, and we had that discussion we could absolutely do it. I think at this point, I mean especially considering this is what we do for a lot of my work is, you know, talking to people about non monogamy in our podcasting, it would be very difficult to walk away from it, it is a very ingrained part of who we are. That's not to say that we couldn't only engage sexually with one another. You know, it's not as if we need sex with other people, it's more so that it would be really hard to step away from the other benefits that we receive
Leyna: You said you're pretty open. So does this mean friends and family know all about it.
Guest: For the most part, yeah, yeah.
Leyna: And what's the reaction been I mean did you guys get any pushback.
Guest: It's pretty simple, you know, if you want to ask them questions, we're gonna answer them for you do understand that you cannot unhear them. You don't want to know, do not ask yeah we always say don't ask questions you don't want the answer to but if people ask us questions we are more than willing to provide the information I will say overall, We've been met with nothing but support.
Leyna: Wow. And you say that a lot of the play that you're, you're experiencing now is when you travel,
Guest: what's happening now, we're taking the show on the road so to speak so we're taking over front porch swingers and sex on your terms podcast and we are going to be traveling the country for the next six months to a year on the road we are selling our home here in Montana, and we're gonna be doing some traveling. Wow, everything that we are going to do is going to be, you know, revolving around our brand.
Leyna: So that's how open they are, you've named your podcast front porch swingers. You just letting it all hang out there. You're now selling your home you're taking it on the road. So, no doubt, there is great interest in this kind of lifestyle, all across the country. Right,
Leyna: And what kind of people are we talking about.
Guest: I mean, it runs the gamut, I think the wonderful thing that we're starting to see is, you know, I think there's always that stereotype of swingers are older people, you know, they are people that have been together for a very long time and you still see a lot of that in the lifestyle, but now you're also see starting to see a lot of people my age and younger even getting into the lifestyle. I think it's a matter of, you know, people being significantly more sexually open than in past times. And you're also seeing, you know, every type of person as well every profession you could possibly imagine. Every.
If anybody really has any interest or support is this conversation hopefully kind of spurs one between you and your partner. I just came back from an amazing dinner at a state with amazing people and it was a lifestyle oriented folks from all walks of life and just exceptional, exceptional people, you know we have friends here in town with us, visiting from from Denver, and they're just amazing people they're, you know, just a loving couple and they just happen to be in the lifestyle.
Leyna: Do you see a day where this, you know where people don't have to lie about being in the lifestyle because I know even though there's a lot of interest out there, and there are you know some people like yourselves who are very open about it. I know there are a lot of people who are living the lifestyle, who aren't open about it. Do you see a day where it's just another choice. That people make?
Guest: It'd be wonderful. I'm not sure if it'll happen through either of our lifetimes, I think that we're starting to see a lot of shifts like I said, especially with younger generations and and just a significantly more open, or just more open discussions I should say happening around sexuality I think you're seeing that in many many different formats. So I think we're starting to move in the right direction. I also think the lifestyle itself is exploding or at least in terms of the people that are willing to admit that they're in the lifestyle, if you look at, for example swingers site. The numbers of users has exponentially grown so I think there are more people stepping out there, there are more people willing to kind of admit that this is something that they're interested in, and I sort of, we're moving in the right direction are we ever going to get to a time where this is completely lacking of any sort of judgment. No, I don't see that necessarily happening. I think that there are such you know puritanical views around sexto that impact us in so many ways as a society, it's really hard to get away from that.
But the good news is the polyamorous community is starting to take a foothold you're hearing poly that term a lot. And with that term comes the other be not monogamous, and with ethically non monogamous comes the swinger lifestyle which is in and of itself in all falls under ethical non monogamy under that umbrella. So hopefully as that movement continues to grow, we'll see a little bit more acceptance in the ethical non monogamy world where hopefully at some point monogamy will be an option, it just simply won't be the default option,
Leyna: Since you guys are so willing to share and answer questions and maybe even guide people along their journey. Tell me, where people can find you.
Guest: Our podcast front porch swingers is available on any podcasting app or at frontporchswingers.com as is all of the information on how people can reach out to us with any questions they may have, and Sonia returns of course is our second podcast it's a little bit more in depth about different specific topics in lifestyle, not so much our personal journey, and it's really where we do our coaching in the lifestyle as well and you can find us there at sex on your terms.
Leyna: All right, next time on Consenting Adults. Someone always finds a way to shock me, you know, I often describe people as going from zero to 60 in two seconds. This couple made it in one second,
Guest: He's like well what about dv, which is double vaginal penetration
Leyna: With this guy? with this horse?
Guest: Yeah, you were like, sure. I said, we can try, because he had Adam had fisted me before.
Leyna: That's next time on Consenting Adults.
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