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Meet Orpheus Black. A serial cheater who discovered polyamory and now lives more authentically, but he also finds his calling after going into a BDSM club. He calls himself a bedroom sorcerer and is teaching couples how to find the magic they didn't know they needed.
EP 18 – The Bedroom Sorcerer
Leyna: Hi everybody, I hope you had a great Thanksgiving, welcome back to the show I want to give a quick shout out to some new followers that we have on Twitter at beach bed couple describing themselves as flirty fun and secure married couple exploring ethical non monogamy, well you've come to the right place. Also a big hello to Toronto hipness to hate nurse thanks for the follow and for Frankie Malone, a corporate goddess with tattoos and a wild side. You've also come to the right place. All right everyone, today's guest. Not only was a serial cheater. It was more than just having several girlfriends at the same time he was living, several secret lives that people didn't know about. And then he discovered a thing called polyamory, and he embraced it. And then he discovered a thing called BDSM.
Guest: Choking this woman with his high heel he’s standing on her throat, and just showcase She's loving it and you know then he takes out the whips and he starts whipping her and doing all these things. And I, at the moment, I thought to myself and I have to think very hard about this. I was thinking I could do this.
So let's get to it!
(Podcast Show Open)
Leyna: Not sure how to introduce my next guest today, he's 46 his wife is 49 They've been together for 25 years. They go by the names, Orpheus and Indigo Black. It should be noted that Indigo the wife is described as the property of Orpheus, the stuff that you're into is wide and varied. We're going to get into all of that but first let's try to find out how they ended up down this road of non-monogamy BDSM fetish, maybe some other things I can't even pronounce Orpheus. Can you remember a time when you may be described by most people as a regular couple, like a normal regular couple.
Guest: Not at all. You can't remember that at all. We were never in a monogamous relationship. So when we came into it I was already dating someone, and I wasn't ethically poly. At the time I was actually cheating. Yeah, for sure, cheating, and out there living a life of a cheater, and I had many different partners do it with, you know, Having engaging in many different lives not just relationships not just play but many different lives with multiple people. When I met her. She's a friend of a friend. When I saw her, she opened the door, I was like this is the person I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with.
Leyna: But not the only person you want to have sex with you want to have sex with other people as well.
Guest: Well you know what, let's make sure that we make a differentiation between what we're talking about as far as polysexual and polyamorous, we are polyamorous with that comes some polysexual but my whole goal is not to have lots of sex with multiple women. I did that in my early teens, and 20s. You know that was a definite goal. My job is to have multiple loving relationships where me and my wife have lifelong partnerships with the people that were with, and I do mean lifelong.
Leyna: So you guys have been together for 25 years. Correct. And it's been you, your wife, how many other people in this relationship.
Guest: Currently I have two partners who I'm actively engaging with where we have both a sexual and a loving relationship, one for two years, and one for six years and I have two other people who I am in love match with that is nonsexual one for 30 years and one for 10 years. Okay, and what does that mean we have intimate conversations, intimate discussions. And like I say I know their kids they know me, raised our families together, we are you know we just moved our relationship from removed the sexual component.
Leyna: You describe having a wife, and then a couple of other relationships are they also in relationship with your wife, or does she have partners outside of those too
Guest: me and my wife have relationships with these two people.
Leyna: And what do you call that is there a name for such a relationship then,
Guest: well actually the original terms were polygyny and polyandry okay so polygynous means one male multiple women right polyandry means one woman, multiple men. This is the two predominant forms of poly as quote unquote around the world, these are the anthropological terms that most people use back in the days, so I'm technically polygynous
Leyna: your two other partners are female.
Guest: Yes, that is correct.
Leyna: When you met your wife, you were a cheater. And you met this woman and something happened, it's like okay this is the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with. How did you know that she was going to be into the stuff that you're into?
Guest: you know let me give you one interesting fact that happened in addition to this, I was spending a lot of time at my mother's house and I had a small apartment with another person, and I was running all my phone calls through my mother's home, and my mother sat me down one day and said here's what's gonna happen. Either you're going to tell all these people that you're cheating on them, or I am now here's the difference. If I tell them they're going to hate you and not respect you. If you tell them, at least they're going to respect you, nice.
Leyna: Mom Knows Best.
Guest: Exactly. I do what my mother told me, called each and every one of them let them all know and most of them hated me. And at the end the day to state. The person who I haven't currently nonsexual a 30 year relationship with, and my wife of 25 years. We raised our kids together. We were in a relationship together. Open loving polyamorous dynamic that you would probably see on television. And that came about because I came clean I said, I want to be able to have a relationship with this person and this person I talked to my wife, my current life, and she said, Yes, as long as everything is honest and aboveboard, I'm willing to give it a shot. The other person said, yes, let's give it a try. I introduced them together, they hit it off immediately. And we were inseparable for many years.
Leyna: Okay so before this though we're either women in any kind of open relationships or, you know polyamorous relationships,
Guest: you know, we are all young back then. So, in poly wasn't even a thing yet poly was still something that people did, you know, in remote little places and, like, feral colonies all over the place. Not even Navy colonies, you know, the biggest purveyors of that thing was really Robert Heinlein kind of following the people who did the stranger in a strange lands and they were called Water brothers and water sisters. So these people had little groups and little organizations all around the country where they were using the term water brother water sister to denote what we currently call pilot. So, there are people who are doing Polly under that name now but it was very rare. It was very small, very isolated, it didn't blow up really big until, you know, let's say the late to the mid 2000s like 2001 to 2005. That's where we start seeing it on MTV, this is where we start seeing our TLC, this is where we start seeing not only the type of relationships but people using that language.
Leyna: And yet people still think of it as pretty taboo, especially those who are not in the lifestyle, why do you think that is,
Guest: I think what people think is taboo, is really them not want is the resistance that comes up when they confront their desires, if you ask most guys in this survey, what's their number one number two, number three, number four fantasy, whatever it is, most people are gonna say, most men will say multiple women, most men, that's been a common nomenclature but what we've been told in order to have this is we have to lie to get it we have to cheat to get it. We have to go outside of the relationships in order to have the nerve to fulfill that desire. So what I see, personally, is the taboo is people keeping up the front, the assumption of no I don't want that on you like who would want that you're perfect You're everything I need. I don't need anything other than this. Right. And so what we're calling taboo is really people not willing to confront the desire for multiple partnerships in this space. Also the other thing is, is I don't want to give equality, I don't want to say that I can have multiple women but you can't have multiple men because I want to be shared, but I don't want to share you. So that's another discussion that people aren't willing to have so we confronted up with taboo, it's not taboo. It's just us not wanting to confront the realities of modern day living.
Leyna: So you've been on both sides of it, you have been non monogamous, one ethically like you are now where everyone is in on it, everyone knows, and then before where you were just simply cheating because you kept it from everyone. Is there a difference in how your life is whether you're doing it with knowledge versus how you were doing it.
Guest: It's more difficult being ethical,
Leyna: really, it's easier to cheat and lie and keep it from everyone.
Guest: Yes, when you're good at it.
Leyna: You've got to explain why,
Guest: why, because you have to, there's so much growth that has to happen and growth is painful. There's so many conversations that you have to have feelings that you have to manage, manage schedules that you have to manage personalities that you have to manage, there's more sexual health and reproductive health conversations that you have to have. Right, there's dealing with jealousy and rage. If I can just keep you in the dark, and you never know that I'm cheating. There's a wonder we'll
have to deal.
Leyna: Yeah, you wouldn't have to deal with any jealousy or other emotions that come up.
Guest: Exactly. And so it's in so I could juggle. At one point in time 10 different, you know, relationships and I'm talking about, not just having sex, I'm talking about 10 different relationships where no one knew that I wasn't, you know I'm living in two in three different houses, I'm not bragging I'm ashamed of it. You know, I'm keeping up this ruse that oh I have to go on this I'm gone for maybe a few days a week. Are you okay with that when I come into the relationship already laying the ground where people are comfortable with me only spending two or three days in a space,
Leyna: so you're just a young man kind of sowing your seeds everywhere and keeping it from everybody. Yes, that is exactly true, but there has to be an upside otherwise you wouldn't be doing it the way you're doing it now.
Guest: You know, if I'm being honest I didn't want my mom to be ashamed to me. You know, I mean like that's that's a real thing. And I thought it was a victimless crime. You know, I mean, and when I realized that I was hurting people. I realized that I was the person doing the hurting I was the criminal.
So then the upside is you don't feel the guilt, it's a lot more work, but you don't feel the guilt that you were feeling.
This is when you give up one pressure for another. Sure. My grandfather used to say, if you can go to work, support your family, spend time with your kids make your wife, super happy, and you still got time to juggle a relationship which you shouldn't, then please by all means, but that means you have to do the same thing for that other person, and the family that you're creating with them. And it's damn near impossible. I realized that it's going to be work to be polyamorous not polysexual polyamorous, it's a lot of work. And I'm willing to put in the work. How many kids do you have, I have a blended family with three kids, and two grandkids are all of your biological children with the same woman. I only have one with the same one, I have one with the same woman. My wife had to when we met.
Leyna: Did you ever talk to your kids did did they know does your kids know that you guys had something that was not like most other families. Yes, at what age what age did they know.
Guest: They knew as much as they could at that age. I mean,
Leyna: because we were born into it right they were born into that kind ...
Guest: They were just really young, my one of my kids was born into it but the other one, the other two were just very young at the time, and children are very accepting, you know, I mean, and really until they have an understanding or it's brought to their attention, they don't know they don't know any different, they don't know any different. Right. You know, I mean, it's not when they ask questions. It's not until they start asking questions.
Leyna: At what age and how do you handle that.
Guest: That's a good question. I don't remember the ages, like teams. No no no no, younger pre pre teens about pre teens is where I think children start thinking about intimacy and things like that or relationship dynamics when they say, I think when they start when boyfriends and girlfriends, is when they start looking at the relationships of other people to see what that looks like. And so they begin to ask questions, to their parents, or to the adults in the room about those things so that they can have a better understanding of it. So that's when it comes. And what we did was we just did age appropriate answers, and only to the degree that we thought that they, that their age and their knowledge was accepted. Right, I think that where people get in trouble is they get nervous and start answering questions that weren't asked, we answer literally the question and if we could get away with a yes or no, require just a minor explanation, fine you know I mean but we kept all the, the intimacy behind locked doors, you know, or when they weren't there, or, you know, it was really important for us to be able to live as other people lived where we're not hiding people because we weren't ashamed of the life that we were living. I've never been ashamed of my, I was ashamed of who I was when I wasn't being ethical, but I'm a hard working, go to work every every morning come home every night, you know, dedicated to my family, providing food from I'm doing the same thing every other guys doing only I'm doing multiple partners. So I wanted to be able to live the same way that my friends were living, but funny thing is, is it was easier for my friends to accept me as a cheater, as opposed to me being poly. Yeah, it is it's so foreign to them. Yes, yes and I had a I had a relative who was cheating horribly. I mean, he was pretty much pet maybe a little strong, but he was pretty much to that degree, with all these chicks. He was more looked up to. With amongst our peer group than I was, because my family knew and were consenting, and it shows the being that dynamic.
Leyna: You have this amazing life with his challenges that you built for yourself. At what point did you get into that other stuff, and I'm talking about like, you know, The fact that Indigo is your property, that there's talk of BDSM and stuff that I couldn't even understand when I read it, but when did you go down that road.
Guest: That's a very good question, and I'm going to tell it the way I remember it. My partner of 30 years who introduced this this remembers it very differently so I go on the record. Before I explain this she hates this story but this is how metallic. So, when I, indigo, and, you know, I'm gonna use your names because I haven't gotten to send to use your name, our partner and I broke up. So it was mean indigo, and this other partner left us for what she called a DOM and I was like, What is it, Dom You know who's DOM like is this guy named Dominic. Dominic, I'm gonna punch him out for, for breaking up my family you know I mean like I was angry and irate, and she moved she took her son who was, you know, not my biological son but I've been raising since he was one years old with her, and away from our family, and we were devastated. Devastated, and when she came back and we all made up and you know we didn't get back together but we were friends again she says, I want to introduce you to this lifestyle to this thing because I think that on some level, you're done with dominant, you might see other people who live in love the way you do in this space. And so I'm like okay, I'm open. Let's let's see what it's about. And so me and my wife put on our you know our powder blue George, California. Hip Hop powder blue with the visor in the tennis shoes and you know we're Maxine coos is that the little skirt on and we go to a golf club and I'm like what's a golf club. And we showed up at the door, you know the bouncer said you know so hip hop night, like you might want to come back on a different day, because there's some stuff going on in there. And after some convincing. He lets us in the door and they pull back this curtain. And I swear the whole place stopped it froze. To look at you guys to look at us because we're like, first of all we're black, a black couple walking in the door with like powder blue color is our crush velour Powder Blue Suede suit, come on. At the time I was looking amazing. It's a great hip hop club I be, you know, the peak of fashion. And it went back to normal. We found a seat we began to watch the shows and I I'll never forget it, There's this, maybe eight foot high cube Crucifix with a woman suspended in it, and there's a guy in high heels, a mohawk in stockings and lipstick and eyeliner and choking this woman with his high heel he's standing on her throat. And just in showcase She's loving it and you know then he takes out the whips and he starts whipping her and doing all these things. And I, at the moment I thought to myself and I had to think very hard about this. I was thinking I could do this.
Leyna: Wait a second. So, but was it a was it a turn on did you find that you were sexually turned on watching it,
Guest: it was not it was not it wasn't a turn on it wasn't a turn off. What a treat this is the fact that they were performers, and I did rap music prior to this, and I gave it up to be a family man like I left the studios and the touring and all that stuff behind, settle down guide nine to five, but the desire to be on stage to perform was really really just calling me again. And my wife was an actress, you know, I mean, a theatre actress and you know she had to stop to do to raise a family, and we both wanted to be back into the space of performing we're both sexual beings, you know, and this was another opportunity for us to be in a space we're in front of an audience, you know, acting or being in the space. And it was, it was wonderful and the guy walked off the stage at the end of the night. My partner was a mutual friend and she introduced me to him and he said hey you want to learn how to do this out of the blue and I say yeah and I never looked back.
Leyna: Wow. Now, before you went and experienced this, you had heard of, obviously BDSM and bondage and all
Leyna: you hadn't heard about it, come on you've never heard about it,
Guest: nothing. Never.
Leyna: Okay, well done. Well, when thinking about it is one thing but I mean, haven't you ever heard that Yeah, some people like to be whipped or you know,
Guest: that never
really never close like I've seen the whipping was like Jesus Christ Superstar something like the same, not the same. Remember, you remember, I am a person of color, you know, as a black person in the community when it comes to sex and sexuality, we're very repressed we're almost right leaning conservative when it comes to sex and sexuality, especially if it's not mainstream, boy, girl, male right male hierarchy you know I mean it's very suppressed so that would have never been a discussion, it would have never come up as normal sexual behavior, ever. I saw I'd never heard of a flogging a media spanking, when you're, when you're doing it from behind that was supposed to be the coolest thing when I was a kid, you get a girl to let you do that, but other than that I've never heard that
Leyna: you've progressed from there. Yes, yes, to what I mean not name off some of the stuff that you're into where you're doing these days.
Guest: You know I think that it's not as sensational, as we're leading up to be like it's not, it's not that sensational. What does
Leyna: what's fire play
Guest: fire play is the erotic use of fire.
Leyna: Okay Well Hello. Wait wait wait wait, you're in the fire play too?
Guest: I am. Yeah,
Leyna: I mean most people are like, amazed and kind of intrigued by fire
Guest: no yeah
exactly. You like candles right you should have candles out for romantic evening so candles, romantic evening directly attached to sexuality, maybe throw on the fireplace, the warmth, the heat sets the mood sets the ambience. What am I doing, I'm doing a sound the thing I'm doing is taking it in my head. Right, and using it as a direct extension of my sexuality whereas people are using it as a passive connection to their sexuality. And when I say sexuality what we're talking about is the, the method with which we navigate intimate situations is how we engage that's engaging in your sexuality. So if you're doing intimate flirting, you're doing flirting, you're accessing your sexuality if you're lighting candles to set the mood, you're creating an environment for your sexuality, this is what we're doing and I'm doing the same thing only I'm taking an active role with the fire, you're taking a passive role with the fat, what are you actually doing with fire. Well, it could be any number of things I can take a torch which is, you probably seen fire eaters use them or I may just blow hot air through the same onto someone's body to kind of warm their body, I may use it as a trust exercise where I say, hey you know what, stick your tongue out let me see if you'll. If I could put this on your tongue, real quick, or I may take it and put a trail down a person's body and they feel this warm heat going up their body and then all the endorphins and dopamine is triggered and released in their system. In the same way, if you've ever gotten to a really hot bath, like you're like, I could barely stand standing do I need to run a little more water is a little too hot well too cold, you know, I mean, right, that feeling which chill that runs up your spine is the same thing that we're doing only I can produce that over and over and over again within the party, within the context of my partner, it is not painful, if it's done correctly, it's exhilarating, it's fun, and it requires trust most people won't trust their partner to give them a fitness, whereas I'm trying to build actively build trust in a regular basis so that we can go deeper and deeper into a person's desire.
Leyna: What else are you into.
Guest: There's things that go into and there's things that I do. I'm not into a lot. I do a lot but it's not you know for clients, for the people that I coach for the people I do scenes with for people I do performance with, I'm willing to be a great giver, within the spectrum of my skill set, but there's very few things I'm into. So now, do you want to talk about what I do, or do you want to talk about what I'm into.
Leyna: Well, it sounds like what you do might be more interesting.
Guest: I do breath play nice play. I do flogging I do spanking I do paddling I do caning I do bow webbing. I do both erotic bondage bondage and meditation, I do Shabari. I do suspensions. Oh, you know I do pretty much everything with the exception of medical play, I do. Climax reading what's medical play medical players, a type of play that use medical instruments that people are into because some people fetishize the dynamic between, you know doctors and patients never heard of that before. Yeah, well you know some people go into you know into a gynecologist and they're like, you know, or proctology and, you know, because of the power dynamic, they're being told and they're submitting to bend over or to go into the stirrups are being a very vulnerable position and allow this person inside them. And because of the control because of the power it has a direct access to their sexuality. Right, so some people sexualized and they want to play it out in other places.
Leyna: So there's really I mean there really is something for everybody, right, Oh yeah, as far as fetishes go
Guest: well fetishes kink BDSM all different stuff. It's all different things and let me explain to you like this. Can't is the umbrella term. Okay kink means any deviation from what you think is normal, whatever you think is normal. Anything outside of that is kinky. So then what may be kinky to me may not be kinky to you, correct, you know, in the Victorian ages if a woman got on top that was considered kinky, right in the early 20s doing a doggy style was kinky. Right, putting a finger in a man's rectum is considered kinky a little taboo in many states, right, so kink, really, is anything that that person feels is outside of normal sexual behavior so now let's talk about what kink is right is, is giving a spanking kinky. I guess it depends on the person. Hmm, it depends on the person, and then it gets even more intricate, if you like the spanking during sex can I spank you before sex. Oh that's kinky I'm out no about that. What was the difference you know me and people literally have a different, a difference of opinion on this. Hmm, I've had conversations with people will say, I say well when he's when you're having sex, maybe he's from behind and he's smacking you Are you okay with it. Oh yeah, I love it. So, if he bent over bed before he's inside of your Spanx you oh no that's dirty. Sit literally the same egg, different time. Yeah,
Leyna: very very interesting
Guest: I think that's really the first time I've actually looked at it that closely, people throw around the word kinky kinky fetish, and kind of put it all in one, one cup. And apparently it's not, you have
to differentiate it when you get paid for it. That's why I see that's why you know so much. I think I know a little bit about it but you know, when you again if you go into an ice cream place and you're only serving. The only serving pie, you're like, you're like they're both desserts. It's like, oh yeah but one's a very specific to, like I can put ice cream on pie, like, go together but they're not the same thing, and I was advertising that we do, you know, you advertise that you did this thing and that's why I came in, so you have to be very clear if a person's a fetishes. That's very different than BDSM because BDSM is very specific bondage, discipline sadomasochism.
Leyna: Aside from your own lifestyle, this has now turned into work and work you enjoy right exactly what do you do.
Guest: Well, it depends. Most of the time I'm educating couples on how to get kinky with each other how to explore each other's ideas of what kink is, and then have the conversation, and then find ways for them to safely navigate that space together. Then there are people who do not have partners who are looking to explore this than want to have an experience with a trusted professional. And so, I give people opportunities to explore their desires. In the realm of cake. And then there's people who, and those who people want to receive, and then there's people who want to learn how to do this so I teach people how to flog or whip or use fire or become essentially better lovers with a more diverse spectrum of skills.
Leyna: Now, for people who aren't familiar, have never done anything like this I mean they may think kink is something you should be able to just explore on your own, like if you think it's kinky you do it, but it sounds like, people may need help in kind of figuring out what is the kink that they're after.
Guest: Yes, you know, at the end of the day, people can get hurt, you know I mean I understand that it's build is sex and sexuality, but this is a type of sexual sexuality where people can be hurt and even harmed, both physically, mentally and emotionally. So it's really important that if you're going to engage in this type of behavior that you at least seek out a professional or do some research, right, and make sure that you have some, some experiences, you know, but most people don't want to do this because they're ashamed to talk about this, they're tos, afraid that their friends are going to find out because the way people in this industry get demonized is absurd. And, and people don't want to be treated in the same way so they subvert the process, you know, and they start engaging this on their own and they wind up hurting or harming their partner. I mean are we talking like normal folk normal people into this kind of stuff. Well, I'd say that you're abnormal if you're not into it. If you tell me that you've never had a fantasy that you haven't acted on, then I would say that you were a liar. We all have fantasies that we don't act on. Right, it doesn't mean that we all fantasize about, there's all this desires that we're not going to tell our partner that we have that we kinda want to experience. If you're saying that that doesn't exist, I would say that you're a liar. Right, everybody has desires that they're not speaking to Carl Jung called them shadow right it's the shadow is the part that we suppress because we're worried that other people are going to judge us around it is the part that we don't want society to know. Right, this is a part of what Freud called the inner dialogue. What I'm trying to do is get you to speak to that, I create a safe consensual environment where people can explore their shadow. And I don't care what it is, I'm not going to judge you on it. So you approach them I say well you know what, I really have this desire to serve like I want to be service I don't want to be ashamed of it, you know I want I really want to serve as my partner. I'm like let's find a way for you to have this conversation with your partner. Right, oh I don't have one, well I'll provide, I'll be the surrogate for that. Let's, let's talk about how that looks. And let's explore it, find a way to explore it safely for you. And are these professional people educated people. Oh yeah, Wilfred beyond call this called BDSM the thinking man sex. I would say that it's full of people who are intellectual or thinking or growing or actively pursuing their wants, needs and desires, and that's what this is about. It's about creating the environment that you want to be in and not hoping that you wind up in it.
Leyna: And do you think it takes a level of maturity and obviously time so that people who are a little bit older, you know you're not you're in your 20s maybe not even in your 30s. But as you get older, more and more people are starting to explore this part of them.
Guest: When I first came in, I was probably one of the youngest people in there, in my early 20s And when I started finding the lifestyle, not the clubs and the performances but the lifestyle was predominantly people in their 40s 50s 60s doing this. And what I found was people were scared, that there were going to be found out by their mothers, their parents, their friends, their whatever is or their children. And so they waited until they were in their 40s waited till they were in their 50s to start engaging around this and now they found that they can flog is long, or they have a reptile disorder, or, you know, they're more worried about their retirement or these other things to really engage in a way that they want to, or they can't learn, they don't have the dexterity to learn how to do these things proficiently.
Leyna: And you think it's, it's kind of in everybody like everyone's got a side of them, it just so happens that, for whatever reasons, you know, whether it's cultural or dealing with society and dealing with your family and responsibilities that we're finding its people in their 40s and 50s that all of a sudden, boom, it's not like you hit 40 and you went crazy.
Guest: Right. Exactly. I think you're exactly right. I think that the people who are conforming more to societal standards, wait longer to get into it, but now we're also seeing now that older we're seeing younger and younger people would come into it because the same and the stigma is not really placed on it anymore. Also, people have generations, millennials and Generation Z aren't having children in the same way that my generation was I had my kids at my at my daughter at 17. My wife had her first child is 17. You know, I mean, So we were young parents you know who, in our 30s and 40s became, you know, now our kids are 18 1920 in our 30s and we can start exploring heavier into it, how do people find you or if he's black calm or if he's black on every social media platform humanly possible, or Orpheus firstname.lastname@example.org Do you think that humans were made to be monogamous. I don't know. I don't know because I think humans are made to have desires and some desire monogamy some desire polyamory.
Leyna: Have you ever met anyone who you think is naturally monogamous.
Guest: Yes, to have really the only two men, you know, I think that the only two men I know that since we were children, they only wanted one girlfriend one never played the field, you know, always talked about getting married and what their wife was going to be like and what was going to be like to have kids and live that type of solitary lifestyle with a partner, I know to never cheated never want to go out looking for girls will never want to go out and party when they got a girlfriend, they stayed home, or they were with him. I believe it's a choice, it really is a choice and some people choose to be monogamous.
Leyna; It sounds great, especially as you're older, and you're able to explore all of these other things. And it sounds like it's worked out great for you and you know a lot of the people you know, but are there instances where it doesn't work out so well that it is damaging that you can screw up your whole family, that your partner is not going to be understanding.
Guest: Oh yeah you you got to know that when you go in there to have a conversation that anything can happen. And so for me, I think you have to know if this is who you are or what you want. If this is something you want because you think it's cool. Are you going to get all this giving it late a lot is going to be this thing I can tell you that it's not worth the risk. So for me, if you're going to take this opportunity, you really need to do some deep introspective and even bringing the professional by talk to someone who is a therapist or a coach or someone who's familiar with Kali, have a conversation to find out if this is just the ego ism or if this is a real affectation of yourself, you know, really take the time to look and think about, about this thing, because you may ruin your life you may ruin your family, you may lose your kids, you may. There's lots of things that can happen so and I've seen it happen. But if you, but if this is who you are if like, it's like if you're gay, you know, is it worth suppressing yourself. You know this is who I am and I took the risk and for me it paid off by no other state, it didn't pay off for when it works out the world is your oyster.
Leyna: And we're certainly glad that everything seems to have worked out well for Orpheus black to find them him them him and the other two, and the rest of them go to Orpheusblack.com All right, next time on consenting adults, a really rough start for one couple in the lifestyle but they learned a lot from it, and they have a lot to share.
Guest: just looking at your partner in that way that says, I want to get out of this is not going to work, you need to have, you know three squeezes on the knee or pull my leg hair or tap me on the shoulder, whatever it is. So, you know, because nobody wants to have a big uncomfortable situation where you jump up and blow whistle, be like, Oh we got to stop I'm freaking out.
Leyna: That's next time on Consenting Adults.
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