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On this episode of Consenting Adults, Leyna speaks to Kylie, a married school teacher who's been unfaithful throughout her marriage. They love each other, but he has a low libido and she needs more. His lack of interest has lead her to seek it elsewhere, including an affair with a well-known singer.
EP 16 – A Marriage and an Affair
Leyna: Hope you're enjoying it and if you are please let others know leave us a rating and review on Apple iTunes or Spotify, and let your friends know about us so you can help spread the love. Speaking of love, I just want to give a shout out to some new followers that we have on Twitter. We've got Solomon Mayman, and at he it's glorious. Also tequila Sun lovers, Ryan gear rich. And a big shout out to Navy dog three who is a husband dad Papa and proud Navy veteran, so welcome. Enjoy the conversation that we often have on Twitter. You can find us there @consentadults. All right, today's episode is different from all the others because it's not about ethical non monogamy. It's about non monogamy, a woman, married to the same man for over three decades has been unfaithful throughout her marriage. But, even though the husband has known about it, he hasn't done much to end it.
Guest: He's jealous because he wants me to be faithful to him. He doesn't want me with anyone else, but I think his fear, I can't speak for him, is that I will leave him if he puts any demands on the situation.
Leyna: Get ready. This is Consenting Adults.
(Podcast Show Open)
Leyna: My guest today is 51-year-old Kylie who is an elementary school teacher, been married for 32 years. Her husband is one year older than she is. They have three adult children, and throughout the marriage Kylie has been unfaithful with multiple affairs. Certainly you are not the only married woman out there who's struggling with some of these issues. And I think it'll be helpful to those women who will be hearing this - married for 32 years!
Guest: Yeah, we've had a lot of ups and downs. I was 17, he was 18 and fell in love quickly. He's just so affectionate, romantic and we dated for four years and got married, I was very young 21. Looking back, you know, that was such a young age to get married at 21 and 22 even though we'd been together for four years. And, you know, everyone thinks about the white picket fence and everything's gonna be great, you know, and...
Leyna: Well, that's what we all want, right?
Guest: Yeah, I mean, we struggled financially, we've had a couple of windfalls through inheritances and financially has been our biggest issue. And for me, our sex life, are our two biggest issues.
Leyna: Would you say that when you're having financial problems, it kind of affects everything?
Guest: Yeah, we live in an area that is totally middle class, but it's expensive to live in California. You know there's been times when my husband, he worked for family business. There's times that it made money, times when it didn't. I was fortunate to be a stay at home mom for a while, when things were going well with his company. And when things weren't going well I had to go back to work. I love my job. I love what I do. I don't mind working because I have a career that I really enjoy, but it is hard when you feel like both of you are making a decent income but you're living way beyond your means, and you're just trying to pay the bills and have a comfortable life, you know?
Leyna: And so when you're struggling that way then all the other stuff, like in the bedroom...
Guest: Right because I'm stressed and it never affected my sex drive. I think sex is more like a comfort. When I'm stressed...
Leyna: You want to have sex.
Guest: I want affection and I want "everything's gonna be okay" and I want him to hold me and, and he just, you know, even when he was younger, really, he was one of those guys that just had a low testosterone from the beginning. I always thought it was me, that I wasn't attractive enough, I wasn't thin enough. What's wrong with me? And I realized, years later, that, you know, I have a few pounds on me and I still can attract men. I have always been able to.
Leyna: First of all, you're 51. But you don't look 51. And I know you don't act it.
Guest: Thank you. No I don't. That's what people say.
Leyna: Can you kind of compare, for me, your sex life when you guys were both younger compared to when did you notice a real shift?
Guest: Well, I'm the one that put him off for a year and a half, you know. He was a horny 18 year old, you know, one of the many things that made him want me more: he had more girlfriends than I had boyfriends. It's like, not that I have a lot of boyfriends, but we just went opposite later. I mean, he was and he still is to me good looking, he was in shape. I thought he was just gorgeous, and he got a lot of girlfriends and I only had a couple boyfriends by the time I met him. I was a virgin, I was not experienced, and he actually was, he's kind of an old fashioned guy, even though he'd had his his experiences. He loved that I just wasn't going to give it away.
Leyna: A lot of men are that way, right? Total double standard where, if they're just messing around, it's okay, but for the woman, they're going to take home and kind of, you know, introduce to mom. They want her to be pure, right?
Guest: I'm the first one she liked.
Leyna: So you found your special guy, you got married, you've been married for 32 years. Did you find that your sex life changed as you both got older?
Guest: Definitely. It's funny, in my 20s, sex was not that important to me. I didn't love it, I didn't need it, I didn't hate it. I didn't really put a lot of importance on it or, or feel bad when we weren't making love. It was a weekly thing and it was fine at that time, that as time went on and he got older and he got stressed, he became less interested and I became more interested.
Leyna: How did it affect you when you saw that suddenly your husband was not as interested in sex anymore? Did you take it personally? Did you see that as a reflection on you?
Guest: Because I put on a little weight. I was very thin in my 20s. I put it all on me. He assured me that wasn't it. He really didn't. Maybe he didn't know why he was starting to lose interest. I think is because he had a little testosterone and stressed out with where financially we were struggling. Looking back, I wish I could tell my old stuff it's not you. I didn't know he had lower testosterone I thought it was all me. So that's when I started, I it "making poor choices." I wanted to convince myself that I was still desirable, still attractive, and...
Leyna: What kind of bad choices did you make?
Guest: Well, I got married so young I didn't do the single life, you know, and so my friends were getting divorced, and they wanted to go out and go to nightclubs and go party and I was "the good wife" up until my late 20s. Didn't do that kind of thing and then I started going out and found guys are attracted to me and I knew most of them just wanted a one night stand or just sex but there were some nice guys that really did want a relationship, if I wanted to pursue that and I finally realized that at that time I'd only put on maybe five to seven pounds but I was still relatively thin, and I started to figure out, it's not just me, it helped my self esteem, but I had this tremendous sense of guilt of what I was doing. I didn't want to divorce him. We had one child at the time...
Leyna: But you were cheating on him?
Guest: Yes, with more than one man, not at the same time.It would be a one night stand or it'd be a brief affair, and I always felt guilty.
Leyna: Did you ever tell your husband about these affairs?
Guest: He saw some conversation I had with somebody that I had met, and he put spyware on the computer that I didn't know. And he found out. He forgave me, but then I did it again and I think he continued to use the spyware, but we didn't talk about it again. It was kind of like, maybe he just accepted it was happening, kind of like the wives who accept their husbands are cheating. He didn't bring it up again. I know it hurt him because he was distant from me. I'm pretty sure he was aware of it, if it continued with the spyware, he had to know. But we didn't talk about it again. It was kind of just not spoken.
Leyna: Did you continue to have affairs?
Guest: I did. Not all the time, I would maybe go a year. I'd feel guilty, it would just happen on and off.
Leyna: But it was giving you something that you were missing at home.
Guest: It was and then I tell myself that that's not what I want, I really want a committed relationship that's passionate, loving. We still continue to have sex but I just felt like it was just once a week and I felt like it wasn't exciting anymore.
Leyna: So it's just an act, like going through the motions.
Guest: It felt like he was appeasing me. I think his fear was I would leave him. My fear is he would leave me. It was one of the things we didn't discuss the elephant in the room.
Leyna: And you still have it discussed this really, have you?
Guest: We discussed an incident that I was with someone famous. And he knows about it. I've come clean to my husband, it's almost like I was so excited by it. I wanted to make him jealous, to be honest, I want to get him to try harder. Not that this person is gonna want me to be his girlfriend, I was very aware that wasn't gonna happen.
Leyna: Okay, you can't just gloss over you had sex with someone famous, or whatever, whatever happened. So you're talking about, we don't want to name him.
Guest: I don't want to say the name.
Leyna: He's a singer. He's a performer. How did you meet? How does this happen?
Guest: I went to a concert with a girlfriend. And we bought very expensive tickets to go to a private party afterwards. I don't want to say where this is at but, you know, we thought why don't we have dinner at this hotel nearby. We go into this little cafe at a hotel. Oh my god, he's sitting there with his wife at a table nearby and my friend goes, "Oh my gosh, just look over there" and it's like half empty. I'm like going, "I can't believe this. I can't believe this!" And I go over there I feel...
Leyna: You're, starstruck right?
Guest: I can't even talk. I'm just, like, I had met him years ago at a book signing. So, I sent him a picture of he and I on my cell phone. Of course he doesn't remember me, of course, but we take a picture, and I'm so excited, and I said "I'm here for your concert" and he's like, you know, he introduces us to his wife and, and he says, "yeah we're staying at the hotel here" and I said, "you know we're coming to the private party at this hotel, that's why we decided to park here." He was like, "Great, I'll see you at the private party after." So we have really good seats, we really splurged on this concert. So we go to the concert and at one point I feel like he's looking at me, I'm not sure but in the picture I have it looks like he's looking at me. He's singing one of my favorite songs and, and then we go to the private party, he comes up to me and his wife's not at the private party, so we're taking pictures and there's hors d'oeuvres and I don't know how much more to say.
Leyna: You don't just go from like hors d'oeuvres to...what did you go from? Your finger sandwich to what?
Guest: He asked for my phone number, and...
Guest: Yeah. And so we went out into the corridor, we kissed. And he said he'd like to see me again. I was feeling like I was living in a dream.
Leyna: Especially since I know who you're talking about and I would be a little gaga too.
Guest: You know I'm not heavy, but I have a few pounds on me, and I've been told I'm attractive, and I just felt so flattered. Like, is this real? Is this really happening to me?
Leyna: There's really nothing and no matter what people say about "Oh I don't need validation" or "I don't need whatever" there is something to be said when someone shows interest in you, it just boosts your ego. I mean, how could it not?
Guest: Then he texted me later to make sure I made it home okay. All we did was just kiss that time and he performs all over. And when he's in town we did get together a couple times. It was fun, I'll always remember it and...
Leyna: Wait wait wait wait.
Leyna: So you had sex with him?
Leyna: And it happened more than once?
Guest: Three times.
Leyna: So that did something for your self confidence, did it not?
Guest: Oh yeah, I mean, I was so excited when he'd call me or text me and it was the phone his wife didn't know about...
Leyna: You were like a school girl all over again, right?
Guest: Oh yeah. He loved hearing about what my favorite songs were and I'd read his book. I read about his life and he loved that I was so interested in him, he said, you know...
Leyna: And vice versa?
Guest: Yeah. He doesn't feel relevant anymore because he's older, but I said, "You know what, you don't know how many people still feel you're very relevant. He touched a lot of lives.
Leyna: I love his songs and when I hear them, it brings me back, like automatically.
Guest: Yes. You remember where you were.
Leyna: I mean it's that nostalgia. It's that feeling of remembering like the sights and sounds and just being back there. That's pretty amazing. So did your husband find out?
Guest: The way he found out, he has some kind of spyware again, you know, on my cell phone, computer, whatever.
Leyna: Apparently you need a new computer.
Guest: And that's why I'm a good girl. I think he always did have something, I don't think he was threatened this person was going to give up his life for me. I think he actually did feel threatened by the whole thing. And he asked me "Are you dating, so and so" and I said, "I don't know if you'd call it dating. We have gotten together." and he says...
Leyna: So you were honest about your infidelity.
Guest: Yeah. He wanted to know what this person wanted from me. My husband's like a husband and a dad all at once he's protective of me which I love about him. He's worried that I'm gonna get hurt. You know that, not physically, but just really messed with my head, and he did in the way. He never promised me anything, but you know I got caught up at all and it was like a dream come true and I was fantasizing about how this could be.
Leyna: Of course.
Guest: But I do have to say about this person is that he ended it very nicely. There was no drama, he was kind, and it was what it was and I'll always, like I said to him, I'll always remember it, it was like...
Leyna: So you look back on it and it's like a really cherished memory for you?
Guest: I get a little emotional because this is so nice and kind to me, and he wasn't mean and he didn't just ghost me he just said, "You know, I think it's", I told him my husband knew and he was worried about his own situation. He didn't want problems for me out of respect for his own situation, and I really appreciate that he handled that. So, something about older guys, I mean, he handled it so well, you know, and I'll always remember it, and I don't want to hurt his life. He didn't want to hurt my marriage and so I get emotional. I think about it because he was just kind.
Leyna: Aside from the excitement, and this newfound passion again, even when it ended, there was a lot of kindness, and just like really raw emotion that it sounds like you were kind of missing anyway, right?
Guest: Right. I just went into a depression afterwards. It's not so much that he was famous. He was just one of the kindest men I've ever met. I mean, and he knows, he knows what depression is, you know, and I won't say too much on that I don't want to give it away, but he could relate. We kind of related on that.
Leyna: So your husband found out about it. Did you now at this point have some kind of real deep conversation about what's going on in your marriage?
Guest: I wouldn't say deep. My husband is not one to talk about feelings. I do know he loves me because he's stuck by me through all of us, like a lot of wives do with their husbands, you know, and maybe he felt guilty or part of it was his fault. I don't think sex is important to him.
Leyna: There are people who are like that.
Guest: And it wasn't an open marriage by any means. He was never okay with it, but he never made demands of me like "stop doing this" there was no threats," I'll leave you." He forgave me but it did definitely, there's that unspoken hurt there, you know? And when certain songs come on, he changes the channel. He has an issue with that.
Leyna: Well, I would too, because he knows what what feelings you attach to it, right?
Guest: It's not quite sure that it's truly over with this person. It is, but every time I go out there's a fear in him. Are you really going out to a girlfriend or are you meeting this person? You know, he even looked up this person's schedule just see when this person's in town, when I happened to go out of the girls during that time period, he will say things like "I hope you're not seeing so and so" and I have to reassure him I'm not. The trust is gone.
Leyna: Right. How long ago was, was this affair?
Guest: A couple of years ago.
Leyna: Wow, so pretty recent still. Have you seen anyone else or been with anyone else since, other than your husband?
Guest: One or two people but not soon after that because I was trying to get over him, and that didn't help. After one or two people, I have been completely faithful to him. More because I just don't want to do that anymore.
Leyna: Don't you feel like, if it's not resolved between you and your husband that it's gonna continue happening because you're young, you're vibrant, you're a sexual person. You want these things and you deserve these things that if you don't get it resolved that you're going to continue being unfaithful?
Guest: I do think about that, you know, but I don't want just one night stands. It would have to be someone that truly wants a relationship. Now that I'm a little older, I really know what I want. And I know that I can pursue it if I want to. I don't want to hurt my husband. I want to grow old with him. I go back and forth, sometimes I go "Well sex is not that important." If we just grow all together we can enjoy our grandkids in the future and we can...we enjoy each other's company we like going to dinner going on vacation, things like that but he's not a go out and party person and I am. That's our differences, he's accepted that I like that so he's okay with it. I do think about my future I think about, you know, one of my parents passed away recently. And I am getting an inheritance. And another reason I never left him was I never thought I could, I could survive on my own. I know, and he knows that I can do that now.
Leyna: Which by the way is a position that a lot of women find themselves in. The husband's the main breadwinner or she needs his income to keep up the lifestyle that they have and then when things go bad in areas of your life, you know, like your sex life and all that other stuff, they feel like they can't leave because they're dependent.
Guest: I wouldn't say I'm dependent. I make more money, a little bit more money than him right now. And I kind of always have. There are times when he didn't even get paid by the business he worked for, but now I really feel I could truly live on my own so that is not one of the issues anymore he, he knows that I think he's scared. We've come to a point where we're friends. We have sex once a week. It's not great. It's not bad. I do because I need it, you know, but I feel like he's trying to pacify me like I truly feel he could just not have it at all. It's not important.
Leyna: Well there's some people like that, and in fact it's, it's normally the other way around where it's the woman who's like that, right? Do you think that there's ever a possibility in your marriage, that you could stay married to him, because I believe you love him.
Guest: I do. I do very much.
Leyna: But there's also another part of you that needs something else that he's not providing so do you see that it might be possible for you to be in a marriage where you're married, but you also have a boyfriend?
Guest: He would never, he'd never go for that.
Leyna: But do you think you're capable of that? Are you capable of being with someone else without subtracting the love you feel for your husband?
Guest: If I found the right person. I just don't want the one night stand. You know, when I go out with my girlfriends, there's a lot of younger guys and younger guys are great, but I'm talking really young. I mean, over 21 but I know what they want, you know, and I don't want that. So...
Leyna: Hold on. So let me ask you, because I've seen your pictures on social media, you're out with your girlfriends, okay you're all these beautiful blondes, you know at bars and clubs. Have you found that kind of being the older woman you get attention from these young guys who are looking for a cougar?
Guest: Yeah, oh yeah.
Leyna: Have you partaken in some of this?
Guest: Do you mean like have sex with them?
Guest: In the past, not recently, but I have. I have met some really fun very attractive guys that always...I don't want to keep going on about my issue with my weight like a lot of women, and I'm a curvy girl and these guys, they don't care.
Leyna: Right, well, and here's the thing, and everyone that you've talked about so far, the only person who seems to really care that much about your weight is you.
Guest: Yeah it's an issue I've always, I didn't have it when I was thin, but you know, because I think it stems from my husband starting to not want sex. When I started putting on five pounds, and then you know, after three kids, and getting older and I have a slow metabolism, not eating healthy, I mean I take responsibility, you know, it happens.
Leyna: But here's the other thing, when men put on weight and lose their hair and get gray and whatever, like women, for the most part, you don't even really see it, you still love them, you still want them.
Leyna: And I think that is such not fair but the other way around, so often, the men notice when the wife - that's why we joke about it - I mean there's a reason these jokes exist because it happens.
Guest: Yeah, I thought that was the issue. He's assured me again and again he's never had an issue with my weight. You know I had a tummy tuck years ago, and a breast augmentation, and I'm thinking of getting lipo again, just for me.
Leyna: Would that make you like wilder than you already are?
Guest: It might. (Laughs)
Leyna: Like seriously, if you're able to get this much sex with younger guys and whoever when you go out. Can you imagine if you didn't have any...?
Guest: Well after I had a tummy tuck, I went from a size B bra size to a D, and I had a tummy tuck and I had lipo and I'm not saying that's the answer. It did something to my self esteem, it was like wow, they made my husband very insecure, he did not like this. I could be in a bikini, you know, we've traveled, you know, to the Caribbean and Cabo and Hawaii. And I look back at those pictures I want to be that girl again. It felt great. I felt better in that body than I did when I was in my 20s, you know?
Leyna: For anyone listening and being judgmental about women getting, you know, plastic surgery. It appears as if you're getting it for other people, but in actuality, it affects you, you're doing it for yourself because it makes you feel better about yourself.
Guest: Oh I've received comments, most of my girlfriends are very supportive and a couple of them have had the same thing, but I've noticed one of my friends that's naturally thin works out all the time. She's gorgeous. She doesn't know what it's like to struggle with her weight. She loves me but she's very judgmental. I know this isn't a medical need. I don't recommend this for everybody, but for me, it did something. It helped my depression. It helped me feel better about myself. I know people are gonna say "well, just eat healthy and workout," I did do that for me, that was not helping me, you know, and it actually motivated me to eat healthy and work out. I had a personal trainer three times a week. I joined the gym, and when my membership ran out after a few years and we struggled and couldn't afford the gym. I know there's other things I could do I could go take a walk around the neighborhood, I had an elliptical machine. I know that. I admit it. It was a choice I made to not continue.
Leyna: And so now you're thinking about doing it again?
Guest: Um just like lipo. I don't need the tummy tuck.
Leyna: Is it something that you need to discuss with your husband?
Guest: No, I mean, he doesn't want me to. Because he knows how I was after. I mean, I don't go out party like I used to, but I still enjoy it, you know? Depending on my mood and when I say party I don't, I don't do drugs. Sometimes have an extra drink or two, but I just like to dance. That's exercise right, and have fun with my girls I mean, that's what we do.
Leyna: Right and so what I'm finding out talking to a lot of women our age, is that it's different when you're doing it when you're in your 20s. So now that you have, you've taken care of the kids, you take care of the husband, you've got your job right,. This is for you, right?
Guest: I get excited like a teenager when one of my girlfriends, next to me, "Hey, you up to go out?" Depends on my mood. Sometimes I decline. I'm tired, you know like we all are, but it's like a high, I need to go home and get cleaned up and, you know, my husband gives me grief about it, but I just have fun.
Leyna: This is your recreation, this is the time you take for yourself.
Guest: Sometimes our girlfriends, give us more attention and more affirmation that our husbands, I mean my husband loves me but he doesn't say I look good, I'm sexy or I'm pretty. And when I asked him, he's like, "of course." It's not what I want, you know, I get that from the girls and I'm not gay, and I have gay friends so I'm usually liberally minded, but my girlfriends say, "You look so pretty tonight!" We do it for our friends,, I think more than our partner sometimes.
Leyna: Well, I think that we as women realize the power in our words or lack of words. That it doesn't cost you anything to pay someone a compliment.
Guest: Yeah let's all be kind to each other, you know.
Leyna: And just by saying a few things to someone, you can make such a big difference in that person's life so we do it freely. And it's not the same when you have to ask for a compliment because then it's not a compliment, right?
Guest: Because if I'm not getting, you know, verbal recognition from my husband and he doesn't have a high sex drive, we don't cuddle like we used. He sits o n the recliner and falls asleep, I'm on the couch playing on my phone. He's content with that arrangement, sometimes I am sometimes I'm not. I'm a touchy feely person. I feel like that balance is off, you know, my needs being met, and it doesn't cost money. It's, you know, "you look great", or "I miss you, I love you, I want you," those things, I think, are missing in relationships. We take each other for granted, you know?
Leyna: They say that people love differently, there are people who love through action. There are people who love through words, right? And if you don't match up with your partner, you really need to learn how to balance it so that each person is getting the message in the way that they understand. Like there are women who love just, you know, "Oh well, I cook and clean for him. I do his laundry. Of course I love him," but maybe he's looking for something else like you know, you realize that your situation at home is not going to get better on its own. You know that, right? You know that.
Leyna: You also know that he's probably not going to change. At this stage, and age, right?
Leyna: You probably know you're not going to change.
Guest: I think I'm gonna want to go out as a little lady I don't know. I had a great aunt at my wedding, and God bless her, she was out there dancing with us and she was the cutest thing, and that's me.
Leyna: Yeah that is you.
Guest: That's me.
Leyna: You know that you don't want to leave him but you know you need passion and something else that he's not giving you. So, so what do you do?
Guest: That's a good question. You know, we don't fight very often anymore but when we do I'm the one that says cruel things like you know "I don't know if I can put up with this the rest of my life." I act like a spoiled brat sometimes you know I want my way. He wants to you know go to a dinner, go to a movie, come home, go to bed, and that's great but sometimes I want to go see a band or go dancing, and I never make him dance because that's not his thing, so I compromise I say "Well why don't we go here, and of my girlfriend's don't come to dance with me, we're just going to enjoy the band." He will sometimes go. But if he says no too much. I'll pout until I get my way. I'm embarrassed I act like that but I know it works, you know?
Leyna: It just sounds like you really have this battle of "listen I know what I want. But asking for it creates problems, trying to get it creates problems"
Leyna: I don't envy your position because you love him, but you also love yourself.
Guest: Yes, With my husband I have, I have to say, how I expect an evening to go so I've learned, I won't get disappointed and upset, I had to specifically say to him, I don't expect you to dance, I know you don't like to dance. And then so you don't have to drive home cuz I know you don't want to go this far distance, I have planned out we're going to get a hotel nearby. I know you get tired. I do want to make love to you that night. I have to I have to spell it out.
Leyna: You've got to get it on his schedule.
Guest: I do! I have to book these expectations, so he doesn't say we you know, cuz in the past, he said, "well you know you got to go dancing and I'm tired, you know," and once I said it to him, and everything went fine. But it's kind of sad that I have to spell it out, you know,
Leyna: I mean it kind of takes out some of the fun and some of the passion when you have to schedule...
Guest: Right, like I have to say, "I want you to make love to me." I mean, I, you know, we watch these movies and it's all romantic, and that's not how real life is sometimes. So many relationships don't work out because I think then the expectations and needs are so different.
Leyna: Have you ever thought about getting outside help like a counselor or therapist or anything like that?
Guest: We've gone to marriage counseling, but his excuses are "I'm tired. I work hard." You know? And we do have sex once a week, it's not how often, it's like, do you want me? He's not spontaneous. He used to be romantic, I wouldn't say he's romantic anymore. I don't feel I have unrealistic expectations, you know, we still have two grown kids in the house.
Leyna: Are there other issues in the bedroom?
Guest: He has to take Viagra and that's common at this age.
Leyna: Of course it is.
Guest: It doesn't bother me.
Leyna: Okay. And yeah, I don't think it bothers most. I think women don't care.
Guest: You have to wait a while before they can perform, right?
Leyna: So it has to be planned.
Guest: Right, right, we don't plan it but...
Leyna: You're kind of already planning it anyway. (Laughs)
Guest: Like tonight and I did last night which is unusual, like Saturdays is our thing. So, you know...
Leyna: So Saturday's a sex night for you guys?
Guest: Yeah, yeah. And last night, as a pleasant surprise.
Leyna: How often does that happen that you spontaneously have sex?
Guest: Not often, not often.
Leyna: Not often enough for you.
Guest: Yeah, I noticed something. If other people pay attention to me then that's kind of like a little aphrodisiac to him. Because it's not just guys I mean I ran into some girlfriends there and they're telling me right in front of him, how pretty I looked and they, they're complimenting me and I think maybe that makes him look at me again because I think he just takes me for granted.
Leyna: Is he a jealous person?
Guest: He's jealous because he wants me to be faithful to him. He doesn't want me with anyone else, but I think his fear, I can't speak for him, is that he will leave him if he puts any demands on the situation.
Leyna: Are you a jealous person?
Guest: I am.
Leyna: Okay. For one moment, let's turn the situation around. If your husband is the one who's been out having affairs, would you still be with them at this point?
Guest: No. I know I'm a hypocrite, but no, I think that's why part of me is afraid to leave him because if I meet a guy that has a high sex drive, the odds are that he would cheat.
Leyna: Do you think that humans were made to be monogamous?
Guest: That's a good question. In a perfect world. I don't know for sure.
Leyna: So your answer is no.
Guest: If I met the right guy I would love us both to be monogamous, you know, I don't know if I can be forever.
Leyna: It appears like your husband could be.
Guest: Yeah. Oh yeah.
Leyna: I'm sure you've given it some thought. I'm not sure that there's an answer for it, but as you sit here now, knowing what you know about yourself, knowing what you know about your husband, knowing what you want. Are you going to continue on this path, stay with your husband and kind of jump in and out of affairs, to kind of appease yourself and your needs?
Guest: I don't know, it's not like I have a plan to think about it all the time. I can see a nice life with him the rest of my life as far as being good friends and enjoying things together, but I change my mind constantly. Am I going to just give up that need for passion and accept this life, because I'm getting older? Or do I want to explore that side, while I have time? It's a constant battle, you know, like do I do what I want or do I do what I feel I should do. And I'm tired of fighting for what I want. I try to compromise, but sometimes I feel like I'm compromising to what he wants. It's a hard thing.
Leyna: Let's move away from your marriage for a little bit and talk about any other sexual experiences that you may have. Have you ever been in a threesome?
Guest: Yes, my best friend and her ex husband for his 40th birthday. And in Vegas. A few times.
Leyna: And how was it?
Guest: It was weird. It always feels like I'm getting more attention. It's funny, my, my best friend. She's wild, she's the one that wants that more than me. Sometimes I think she has feelings for me, my husband does think that sometimes I do. We've never addressed it. I think she uses that opportunity to be with me, and I'm okay, I'm an open person, but she gets jealous that the guys pay more attention to me. But she's not getting enough of my attention, it always turns out awkward with her and me. So I just stopped doing that because we get in little arguments.
Leyna: But you keep doing it.
Guest: Yeah, it would always be her idea you know I, I just have this feeling and I'm hesitant to address that with her.
Leyna: Has your husband ever talked about that? Has your husband ever expressed any kind of interest in any kind of sexual activity other than what sounds like a very traditional, you know, like missionary-style type guy? Does he have fantasies?
Guest: Um, he's more old school.
Leyna: One man, one woman.
Guest: Yeah, when Fifty Shades came out it made me feel good because he always thought that I was kinda like, "you're into that," you know, it's like just just, it's known to the mainstream, but I always felt bad for wanting that kind of stuff, and he made me feel bad for wanting it. A lot of people like that. I'm not weird. (Laughs)
Leyna: What other sexual kinks do you say that you have?
Guest: I like to be spanked.
Leyna: Sex toys in the bedroom, are you okay with that?
Guest: He's insecure with it. He does not use the vibrator and I wish he would.
Leyna: That's so sad.
Guest: He thinks that he's not enough, then. I don't know, I'm curious if that's a lot of men's insecurity.
Leyna: Of course it is. But normally as the guy gets older, he realizes that our bodies are different and we need something like that sometimes and they don't care anymore. But your husband still feels threatened by that?
Guest: I take my vibrator into the shower after to finish for myself, you know? He knows that. He used to have an issue he just knows that's what I got to do, you know, and I feel bad. I just can't get there with him anymore.
Leyna: How long has that been?
Leyna: So for years you've been having sex with your husband and not orgasming.
Guest: No orgasm. It sucks. I don't even know what it feels like anymore.
Leyna: Do you like to give it to yourself?
Guest: Sometimes we like doggy style. I just can't get excited at all by the men on top, it just doesn't do it for me.
Leyna: It actually doesn't do it for most women. How about oral sex?
Guest: Sometimes, not always.
Guest: Sometimes but you know what, I am more turned on by fingerplay.
Guest: Yeah he's really good at that I have to say.
Leyna: Wow, you're the first actually you're THE FIRST woman I've ever met who said that. That's interesting.
Guest: Well my understand is women can orgasm vaginally or clitoris, right? And I think for me, clitoris is more. I just kept to the other way and I've, I have read that a lot of women can't.
Leyna: Most women can't.
Guest: I've read you have to really be tight and have really good muscle strength, I think. Do those kegels.
Leyna: Okay, very good. Let's do it together. Ready one...two...three...hey, hold on let me keep up with you.
Leyna: That's Kylie everyone, thanks so much for sharing your story I know it can't be easy and I hope that you find some way to work this out, because everyone deserves to be loved. And yet, everyone also deserves a partner who is honest and truthful to them. All right, next time on consenting adults, a little side action turns into a whole new lifestyle.
Guest: I got into having threesomes with my best friend who is a female with my previous husband. And when the marriage broke up. I continued to have sex with her. And so when Liam and I got together, I basically said on our first date. I like having sex with my best friend, I don't really want to stop so if you're okay with that we'll probably be a good match.
Leyna: That's next time, on Consenting Adults.
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