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A young woman finds her own swinging sherpa after meeting an older man familiar with the swinging lifestyle. The "Casual Swinger" says you don't have to go "all in" if you want to dabble. What do you think about that?
EP 11 – Casual Swingers
Leyna: Welcome back everyone thanks for all your comments about that last episode, episode 10 If you haven't yet, please leave us a rating and review on Apple podcasts so other people can find out about the show. I mean we certainly covered a lot of ground in that episode, and tells me that her boyfriend has listened to it. Loved it. The husband has not listened to it yet so we're gonna have to wait and see what he thinks of it, and has agreed to join us next time we do a Facebook Live to update you on our situation, and to maybe answer any questions that you may have after listening to Episode 10 Okay, today's episode is really a treasure chest of information. This couple really knows the ins and outs of swinging, and they're ready to share.
I have a mantra I'll try just about anything once twice for good measure. Three if there's a camera, so let's get to it.
(Podcast Show Open)
Leyna: We've got another couple in the studio today talking to us about the lifestyle, we've got Mickey and Mallory Gordon, the first time I'm using anyone's full names because they're that open about their lifestyle. They're from Orlando, Florida, they're both IT professionals. He's been in the lifestyle 27 years. She's been in the lifestyle 14 years, they are married and I can't wait to find out how this happened so Mickey you've been doing this for quite some time and you're only you're 44
Guest: Yeah, I am.
Leyna: How did you find it.
Guest: Well, I we didn't know what it was at the time right so when we first started it was, it was really just kind of a slant toward open sexuality and a desire toward a more open relationship and a more open conversation about sex it really started wanting to talk about it and then it turned into more. And to be perfectly blunt. It started with a threesome, and that's really all I thought it was and of course as I got older and as I became more experienced and I learned the ins and outs of what the lifestyle actually was I realized that I was just kind of my orientation, it was my predilection toward having more open experiences and more open conversations about sex that lead to those experiences. At the time, it was a mess
Leyna: did you meet Mallory, in the lifestyle?
Guest: No, actually
Leyna: Oh, Mallory, how did you guys meet/
Guest: it's gonna sound a little bit like a softcore porn but I met him at my job at the time I was in the nursing field. And we just hit it off we were fast friends for about a year and a half and then started dating.
Leyna: Okay. Did he tell you right away that he was in the lifestyle?
Guest: pretty early on but not immediately, I think that was a good call on his part because being a little younger, and a little more naive, I don't know how I would have received it, to be honest.
Leyna: Okay, you are how old?
Guest: I am currently 36
Leyna: Okay, so you were quite young.
Guest: Yes, yes I was 21
Leyna: leaving age aside, there are people who I don't know, maybe 4045 You meet someone new and they tell you right off the bat during the lifestyle you might just say no thank you, especially if you know nothing about it. Mickey, can you tell me about your decision not to tell her right away.
Guest: It wasn't a matter of hiding anything. So the thing about the lifestyle, the most important thing that anyone can tell you is that it's about communication and open communication, honest communication, and an honest conversation about desire. When you first meet somebody that's really not what you're talking about, right I mean you're talking about getting to know them their loves their dislikes, their passions, and the lifestyle is a part of who we are, and it always will be. It's always been a part of who I am, but that's not the first thing that I am. I'm a father. I'm a music fan, I love literature. I love writing, I love producing our podcast I love a lot of things that aren't just sex. So, when the decision to not have that conversation was a matter of getting to know her and make sure that I wanted to share that part of my life with her it wasn't about hiding
Leyna: and Mallory, can you tell me about that conversation, where, when he did tell you.
Guest: You know I have to say he handled it better than I probably gave him credit for at the time when he presented what the lifestyle was and how he felt about it. It was a little shocking, only because of the nomenclature when, when I thought of swinging as a lifestyle I had what most people have who've never experienced it before is those stereotypes, and I wasn't upset by the conversation, but I left it and thought a lot about it and I had questions that I wanted to present to him to see really what that means to him outside of that word in and of itself.
Leyna: Okay, what are some of those stereotypes, what did you think it meant.
Guest: In some ways, and it's unfortunately sometimes we get our education from porn and I think that some of the memory bank, or just hearsay that we pull from that there's these key parties and it's called wife swapping when and when you hear wife swapping it sounds like there's not a lot of consent or buy in from the female source on that under the equation, and that's absolutely not true. It's actually very driven by females.
Leyna: It shocked you but it didn't totally turn you off to him.
Guest: No it didn't. Is it it turns out, you know I had been living some in the lifestyle very, very quietly, since I was about 16 or 17 years old.
Leyna: What does that mean?
Guest: So when I was very young I had a few experiences that were with multiple partners at the same time as well as female partners, and it wasn't really socially acceptable to have engagements like that especially being young. Of course I don't endorse you know, sex too early, because it's definitely an emotional, you know investment when you cross that bridge with another person, but it wasn't something that was talked about amongst my, my friends and close circles.
Leyna: So you had some experience and then now you hook up with this guy, I figure you're really into him right.
Guest: Oh, very much, very much. I'm pretty charming
Leyna: and he presents to you this lifestyle that you weren't too familiar with. Can you tell me about, kind of making that first leap, you know you at some point decided okay I'm going to give this a try. What was your first experience?
Guest: with Mickey, um, it was kind of an anomaly, we ended up meeting some great people, by happenstance in a lifestyle environment. And we talked about something called the four way connection. As a couple, when you're dating other couples, and we ended up having it spark almost immediately and it's like lightning in a bottle. It couldn't have gone better. I've heard other stories to the contrary, but it was, it was fabulous, it's something I'll be, you know 80-90 years old, God willing, and will remember.
Leyna: Is that something that's that rare Mickey especially you've been in this lifestyle a lot longer than she has, where two couples get together and you're all really into each other.
Guest: I would love to say that it happens, you know, every Wednesday but absolutely, it's in the reason is, especially today in America. It just will just speak about America because that's where I live, it's polarizing every piece of information we consume is something worth giving our opinion about or arguing about. So the lifestyles not different the lifestyle is a microcosm of humanity. So what's going to happen is you're going to have all of the same issues that you have with somebody else where people feel the need to inject their opinion or, or maybe one of the people at the table treats their server like crap because they had a bad day and that's a turnoff for the other couple, maybe there's a language or a culture barrier, maybe there's a style difference maybe they don't look like their pictures. There are things that happen all the time in dating when couples that are dating just a man and a woman or a man and a man or a woman or a woman, just two people, and two people get together, there's things that come between them and when four people come together, there's honestly four times as many things that can come between them, and when one person isn't in the way the lifestyle works if I had to give you a rule is we always go as fast as the slowest person. So if one person isn't comfortable and one person isn't happy or isn't an all in, then everyone's out. And so that does make it rare,
Leyna: you kind of make this sound like it's much more than just about sex. So, you meet another couple, they're both good looking, that doesn't mean it's gonna go well,
Guest: right 100% 100% Yeah, looks and physical attraction or a small part of it now don't get me wrong, there are some people in the lifestyle that maybe just love putting a notch in their bed post or just having that, that excitement that that risky endeavor outside of their bedroom and, and then they go back to their normal lives, and like nothing ever happened. And maybe that's a separation of church and state the segregation of the lifestyle and the regular lives and other people like us tend to be a little more, like, So there's another thing which is we make our swingers friends, we don't make our friends swingers. So we love having swingers that become friends of ours that's our play-style we enjoy that, but there are people that do it the other way around as well.
Leyna: What are you guys into?
Guest: Oh, I'll leave that one for Mallory.
Guest: I think we don't hone in on one style, per se. I think we've had a myriad of experiences and what we gravitate to our couples engagements like that, like a for some dating kind of scenario, or for some play kind of scenario, but also in play-styles that include either of us going out and having that freedom to enjoy, you know, our friends in the lifestyles actually as well.
Leyna: Meaning, you guys, allow each other to play separately.
Guest: Correct, yes. Yeah, and that's honestly not said so, a lot of people would call that a kitchen pass or something like that and it's really not something that happens around here very often but in the right situation maybe I'm out of town for work and a couple that we're familiar with, that we know says, Hey Mallory you free Friday night yeah Mickey's out of town so yeah and then, Sure, that's that has happened but you know our playstyle actually tends to fall more in line with what's good for the group, because we do have so much experience. We know we like a lot of things but the thing we like the most is spending time with our friends
Leyna: Malorie do you identify as being bisexual.
Guest: Oh absolutely. By Furious is the term we use to call me out. Yeah, very actively bisexual, in search of Yes, uh huh.
Leyna: And how about you, Mickey.
Guest: I am not, I adore the feminine gender in group situations incidental contact is a given. It's just one of those things that happens, I'm not one that actively looks for sword fighting and I wouldn't engage in it, but at the same time, if we engage a couple that we really love hanging out with and he says hey I'm bisexual. I'm like, great, that's That's amazing, I still think you're a great dude love hanging out with you. Um, I don't actually engage in that kind of play, I still love you still wanna hang out with you. We're still gonna play incidental contact happens I'm not going to freak out because he is I'm not going to go running out of the room like he hit me with a flame thrower. But at the same time, I do think that if you don't have the conversation this all goes back to communication right. Be honest. Be honest about what you want. Be honest about what you're into, and make sure that if that other person does have that innate reaction that that fear of, of having some sort of a bisexual interaction that's, let them know that, you know, okay that is going to be a problem for me so let's not get in a situation where that happens because all that does is ruin it for everybody else
Leyna: Do either of you have an activity that you really enjoy that the other person doesn't and you're able to enjoy it with others and the lifestyle.
Guest: I would say so. As much as we both love music, I absolutely adore dancing. My husband is a wonderful human and tolerates a lot of my habits and hobbies, that is not one of them that he takes pleasure in so having friends in the lifestyle that enjoy that as well, whether it's in our kitchen or at a club somewhere or in or it's it's wonderful to be able to have those people.
Leyna: How about in the bedroom, is there anything that that you know you're into that your spouse just isn't?
Guest: In recent years I've explored a little bit with bondage, nothing extreme it's more like an intro level. Some tying up here and there and it's something that doesn't necessarily bring into my the bedroom with my husband, because we have a different chemistry, when it comes to that stuff. So it's easy, it was a lot easier for me to introduce that into my sexual dichotomy, with somebody else.
Leyna: Sure, Mickey?
Guest: It's very much a turn off for me. I was raised in a bit of a broken home, and the idea of hurting somebody I love is is horrifying to me so I really just don't. Let's say that you don't have my past. And that is something that your partner wants to try and you don't. And it could be anything. It doesn't have to be impact play. It's okay, when you talk about it and start to really understand that even if you tried. Even if you tried to make yourself do something you didn't want to do, it wouldn't feel the same, it wouldn't be the same as being with somebody that was passionate about it, that really enjoys it enjoys giving that pleasure out of that experience, and you're not going to learn how you're not going to be passionate about, you're not going to know anything about it you're not going to desire it, you're not gonna want to be good at it. If you hate it. So even if I did decide okay I'm going to smack Mallory's ass like it's never been smack before tonight, pardon my expression, you know, it really wouldn't be the same as somebody that really truly was into it, where she could really give herself to the moment. And that's really the difference in the lifestyle we give herself to the moment, not necessarily to the other person.
Leyna: Is there anything that you're into that your wife isn't that you're able to get from someone else?
Guest: No. She's a freak.
Leyna: So Mallory's up for anything much
Guest: I have a mantra I'll try just about anything once twice for good measure. Three there's a camera. Right, yes.
Leyna: Did you discover anything that you're into that you didn't think you were into.
Guest: Yeah I would say I'm gonna take this one Mel so for me, I discovered how much I enjoy my wife telling me a story. So when she goes out and plays, and I'm not around. Or maybe she goes out and plays and I'm at home and I'm, you know, taking care of the kids you know powerwash in the driveway, whatever it is normal people do and they're HOA enabled neighborhoods. So then she comes home, and I can't wait to consume her in that moment, and she is an amazing storyteller. So I found that there was a really an aspect to our play in our life and our relationship. That was so scintillating for me, it was just this thing that I couldn't get enough of so is a discovery that really had nothing to do with me. But at the same time she couldn't wait to come home and tell me the stories and tell me what she had done, and then wait for my reaction which was extraordinarily visceral.
Leyna: Wow. Mallory How about you, anything you discovered you'd liked that you didn't know you did?
Guest: Actually I think it's been my own version of Candyland along this journey because I have the opportunity here to really seek out what I want in a sexual relationship and I mean voyeurism, I'm definitely more of an exhibitionist, but I enjoy watching my husband, the bondage and impact play and I mean, anal and different toys and machines even, It's kind of the world is my oyster so I've learned a lot about myself outside of being bisexual, and the the standard traditional sex and, you know, monogamous society, society, I guess
Leyna: you know, I don't think anyone I've interviewed so far has talked about all that extra stuff like toys and stuff, is there a lot of toy usage in the lifestyle?
Guest: Oh god, yes. Oh yeah, absolutely, waiting for more adjectives there Yeah, I lost them because I got a little flesh just thinking about her. So yeah, we we personally have a lot of toys, but I've always been fascinated with aside from, you know, traditional I think they call it a bullet vibe I never really played with toys until I was in my mid 20s So for that, for me it was once I got in touch with my body and how to use them, it was a free for all. Toys are definitely a part of our bedroom, it's not an everyday part of our bedroom but pretty consistently in it. There's a wide range, and I love that.
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Guest: Yeah. And we have so many interesting opportunities today so let's just picture this Sicily, 90. But, you know, so think about this, you've got four people sitting at a table or six or eight, and somebody brings along Bluetooth enabled Penny vibes. Oh, and the ladies, put them in their panties, but they don't know who's controlling it. And the guys can all control the Bluetooth Panni vibes from surreptitiously from their pockets. Oh my gosh, uses an app on their phone, on their phone from a distance, I can do it from across the country. So, yeah, so you see the lifestyle, the permutations of the lifestyle are so broad, Because that's not sex at all that could be just with your partner or no touch at all, just a person sitting across the other side of the table and waiting for you to take a sip of water at the perfect time
Leyna: Can both of you, each describe to me, is there any place session that really stands out in your mind like that was freaking amazing.
Guest: The first time that it was the first time it really stood out for me, because I think that one's special was "rnh", if you remember who I'm talking about. I do that the energy really stepped it up. It was a little more intense, not just from a, like a sexual engagement but from how we felt as friends right there was a little more head play where we could talk to each other in moments, and it got in your head and storytelling essentially during intercourse and it was fantastic to see. I thought you were gonna see the first time because like I told you your very first time was often was but it's definitely it was, it was beautiful and perfect for me as I'm, as I was introducing, but if you remember, there wasn't a full swap element to it.
That's true, not until after. Yes, right, I forgot. So to answer your question, Leyna, I think, for me, it was, it was not the experience itself so we spent an evening with another couple, and it was a long night. It really was there was a lot of play multiple sessions, a lot of, you know, it's all same room kind of stuff but just a lot of back and forth talking, and a lot of activity, but my, the reason it stands out in my mind so much as the next morning we went to get breakfast and Mallory went to sit down in the booth, and she kind of jumped up she jumped up in the air and had to readjust herself and I said What was that, and she went oh my god I'm sore. And so I texted him right in that moment I'm like damn dude, what did you do. And, but it was so funny and so raw and so real, and that, you know, I know how much fun she had I was there. And for me, so there's a term, another term in the lifestyle for anybody that's taking notes, and the term is compurssion. Compurssion is the idea that you derive pleasure from your partner's pleasure. So when your partner is happy and enjoying themselves. It makes you happy. I'm one of those people I'm a compulsive person so I know she was having fun. I could hear her, I could see her, I could see her physical reactions. But the next morning I know how much fun she couldn't even sit down.
Leyna: I have heard of that term, and I'm trying to find someone to try and explain, or maybe admit, the difference between feeling joy that your partner enjoyed themselves. Okay, versus it being just a sexual turn on to watch your partner being with someone else, that there's an element of jealousy that turns into this energy that's like a complete turn on. Do either of you know what I'm talking about?
Guest: I know exactly what you're talking about because I've been through it on about 100 different occasions because this is technically my second lifestyle marriage. So I was married once before and in the lifestyle and when I was first going through some of these things. The first time I ever saw my partner with somebody else, my stomach turned inside out. But my heart was gonna be out of my chest, I thought, I'm supposed to be punching this. Right, I mean, I'm supposed to be angry, and I'm not, I mean I was scared. And I'll tell you, even as a person today, that is, that is turned on by the things that Mallory does, and that is turned on by the things we do in the lifestyle when she goes out and plays, and I'm, I'm home alone. My stomach, still turns inside out to this dinner. Jealousy is natural, you wonder, Am I gonna lose this person the fear that we all have at the end of the day is that we're gonna end up alone in a pile of our own filth, right, that somebody else is going to be better do better and earn the thing that we love the most. But that's just fear right false evidence appearing real. It's not something that we subscribe to, if I'm jealous, it's really obvious to Mallory frankly because I never get jealous so when I do if it even pops up in a spark of jealousy, she's like, Okay, what's going on. Let's talk, but it does happen, and learning how to harness that jealousy not to turn it into something else but to understand why you feel that way, and talk about your partner to find out how you can soothe that is something that you guys are doing or not doing is creating that emotion.
Agreed, I've had that conversation with myself several times, is this a jealousy issue that leads back to insecurity that I have with inside myself, you know that that I'm getting from this situation or is it envy to I feel envious, or a little with the call FOMO, fear of missing out because, you know, my partner had a better time than I did. So it's it's constant I mean, even though we've been in the lifestyle for, you know, a million years at this point, it does happen from time to time.
Leyna: When it happens so when jealousy hits you and you're in the middle of a play session, what do you do, how do you handle it?
Guest: I personally tried to not ignore it or suppress it because that's probably the wrong word but I focused my intention to the, the moment that I'm in, because I know if I don't, I'll regret it, but I will say that if I can't get past it while we're in the moment. I will find a way to politely excuse myself from the situation or defuse the sexual situation, just to make sure everyone's okay, because I believe one someone is a little off kilter, especially in those environments that sixth sense we have as human beings, you know your antennas kind of go up and you know something's maybe not quite right. And it's, it's not worth going through the action and bringing everyone down with this mysterious emotion that's happening in the background.
And we see this a lot and so we, when you're dealing with people that are relatively new to the lifestyle or maybe it's among their first experiences, or even their 50th experience. At any time, any person can say hey guys, can we, can we pause for a minute. And that pause for a minute could be for station identification, could be for breathing. Okay, it could be for any number of things but that pause, and the ability to pull that ripcord full stop, is so important when you're when you're having these sort of physical conversations with somebody else because body language is a thing once, once you know consent has been established, then things just kind of start moving, and maybe, just, it could be anything that sets it off, it could be a baby crying in the hotel room next door, it could be a phone ringing it could be any number of things in there, all okay. It's always okay to say, hey guys, can we take a second, and that's so much better than feeling like you can't, having a breakdown and running off and hiding in the bathroom and three people wondering what the heck happened, right, right, and that's what we try to avoid and which is why we talk about these things before the clothes ever come off. We want to make sure everybody's cool we want you to know that if anything does happen, you're not comfortable with, Pull that ripcord, I will be happy for you, that you did not upset not sad not mad not disappointed, but happy for you that that means that you trust our relationship and this friendship enough to tell me the truth, in the moment. Yeah condensed I think we tell them we'll celebrate you for it.
Guest: So, so don't feel shy.
Leyna: Mallory, you're the first person I've interviewed whose first experience was awesome. Do you think it's because Mickey already had experience in the lifestyle.
Guest: I think that was part of it because so I had my own, you know, guide my own navigator, with me, and even though I was learning how to forge my own path on who was a great ally in that respect because he was very impartial in his feedback and recommendations, and you know I was I was pretty nervous especially putting myself out there in these environments of groups of people that, you know, here I am this newbie this this infant swinger and I don't know what I'm doing and it made me more confident to pursue and engage with people who, you know, we would want to befriend and see where it was. So I think that was definitely a major influencer, and how well it went
Leyna: can you see how a couple, both new to the lifestyle, jumping in might have a rough start?
Guest: Oh, yeah, we see it all the time and a lot of time where we see the rough start, is where they're running headlong there, maybe one person is pushing and the other is being pulled. Maybe, maybe they're not taking the time to talk to each other, each step of the way and hear how each other's feeling they just go go go until the thing happens, and somebody explodes right and that leads to some very negative feelings about it I'll tell you. The first time I brought it up to Mallory, she looked at me and said, so you want to have sex with other people, that's what you're saying. And, and I was like, Wow, no, I really mischaracterize what I'm trying to say. And, you know, I'm a fairly solid communicator and I screwed it up. Totally. So it's easy to do, but I think is new people who maybe don't have a Sherpa of your own to guide you up the mountain. Maybe that's what we should have called our podcasts, the Swinging Sherpa. But no, you know, it, it really is difficult, but it's mostly difficult because characteristically speaking one of them is intensely more passionate about some aspect of what's going on than the other one is, and they're not talking about it, a lack of communication will always lead to problems, even in a monogamous marriage.
Leyna: You make it so normal you make it so you just make it very normal. That is just another type of relationship. So you're swingers. But a lot of that is kind of emotional you know it's having a connection with the people you play with, you know you're not just going to sex clubs and hooking up and, you know with strangers right there has, right, but do you where do you draw the line at swingers versus, you know, polyamorous relationships?
Guest: Hmm. You know, Polly is, is a entirely different sort of relationship dynamic and Poly, in the lifestyle can be easily likened to a landmine. And the reason is because sexual interactions tend to get emotional, especially when you start really liking having sex with the same person. So how do you navigate those waters and how do you tell the difference, you know, have we have we dabbled on that line in our relationship we have. It's not my personal jam, personally, but that doesn't mean that it isn't for other people and as a person that openly communicates with my wife, if that's who she was. We'd work it out. But Polly is dangerous, because now we're talking about relationship dynamics family dynamics power structures, we're talking about dealing with something called NRE which is new relationship energy which basically makes all of us stupid for about six months. So when all of these things come into play something else comes into play, which is an additional party or parties that have an equal say in the relationship with an equal amount of communication needed to maintain a full tank of gas. If you don't have the time the inclination or the desire, if one of the people is not totally into it. That can be really dangerous.
Yeah, and I think the danger increases when it starts as a swinging relationship. It takes a lot of communication, and where with all to venture into that sector coming out of the lifestyle. Now polyamory in his face is not about sex, it's about having two or more partners, essentially called metaphors that hold equal status in your life. Sometimes there's a primary sometimes not, but that's more from an emotional than it is a sexual relationship. So you've taken something that started as sexual with a connection, you know, on a friendly or platonic basis right in the background or supporting that sexual relationship and then you turn it into emotional. I think that's a lot more challenging to navigate in in that way, but we do see see people experimenting with polyamory coming from that,
Leyna: Between you two. Is there a rule or agreement that this is not going to turn into a poly situation. Do you agree on that, and then take steps to prevent it. If it starts moving that way, because how do you how do you stop yourself from like falling in love with someone else, especially when you're sleeping with them?
Guest: It happens. Yeah, agreed. Yeah, it can happen so inside of our relationship. So we have had this conversation so if I'm being perfectly blunt, you know, the way I look at it is, there's the every relationship has a throne room, and in that release in that throne room you have thrones, one for the king, one for the queen and the difference with Poly is you add another throne to the room. Right, that's what I know everybody has an equal say everybody is, is part of the throne room. But, in, in our dynamic, you know, it's, it's really, you know, we don't invite anybody else to the to the throne room because I'm personally not comfortable with sharing the dynamics of running our home and our lives and that that kind of weight goes way beyond those friendships and relationships and sexual relationships that we have is lifestylers. Once your poly, I mean that's like hey can we fit all three names on a check. You know it's like it really, it starts to become so much more. And that's not there's nothing wrong with it. I'm just not into it. Now, does that mean that if Mallory came to me and said, Alright, I really want to try this, then the conversation would be, I'm, I'm good with trying, but I'm not adding a throne to the throne room, you're my queen, and if I'm uncomfortable and I pull the ripcord the train stops
agreed, agreed, I have a hard time looking, because I can feel very deeply about people it's just who I am, I care very much for the folks, I welcome into our lives, but to share responsibility and trust like that within our human being with my kids. Oh, forget it, man. I just don't ever see me being that person who really wants that traditional polyamory relationship. Some people use that term when they had what they called girlfriends or boyfriends to the situation even though they're spending weekends and vacations together they're not sharing, checking accounts or bills or car payments.
Yeah, there's some friends of ours in Canada, they're a triad and they're amazing. They love each other to death. They're awesome, but not RJ, right.
Leyna: I would imagine that there are people who maybe have thought about the lifestyle, or the newbies who would have, like, a legitimate concern that if I go down this road. What if I lose my partner to someone else because he falls in love with her. That that's got to be a real fear, sure, and that people aren't thinking polyamory as the, you know, shared financial responsibilities. I'm talking about, like, actually falling in love with this other person. I mean there has to be a big fear that that would happen.
Guest: There is, and it happens, it happens in workplaces every day Starbucks every day online every day, because in the end of the day, at the end of the day, it always comes back to there's a void. There's something that I'm getting over here that I'm not getting at home now. Does that mean you're doing something wrong as a partner, not at all. It just means there's something else that they really find that they're passionate about and they find it in another person. It's possible, outside of the lifestyle too, so you kind of have to separate the two, like is it possible that my person could fall for somebody else, I guarantee you it is. Now, does it is it going to happen because you're sleeping with no, the communication aspect is really important. Hey I'm finding this really attractive about that person. Maybe I'm getting a little too close, maybe we should pull back or are you okay with me getting this close because I like it. So again, all about communication, all day long Honey Do you disagree. No, I agree wholeheartedly.
Leyna: Okay. Boy, you guys are like just like a pressure. You guys really driven, you're like the treasure chest at the kids dentist office, you know whatever good and that you know what you can go over there and pick whatever you want out, how do people find you guys because I think you guys have a lot of good experience and information to share.
Guest: We are casual swinger everywhere so if you Googled us um you could probably find us but it's casualswinger.com
Leyna: Yes, lots of great information, especially for those who are just curious about the lifestyle and want to start dabbling. Okay, next time on consenting adults, we talk to a masturbation coach, after divorcing his wife, Russell gets into the world of sex magic.
I'm not a master. Still, I'm a, I'm an erotic wizards apprentice right now. You're like the Harry Potter of penises here Russell. Thank you. That's high praise.
Leyna: That's next time on Consenting Adults.
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