EP 101 Finding Your Playstyle

Full swap, group play, open marriage, stag/vixen, cuckold, poly, and the list goes on and on. Couples often evolve in the lifestyle and their playstyle can change with their experiences. Sometimes your fantasies and what you really like can be different. This couple talks about how they found what makes them comfortable.

Leyna: My guests today are a beautiful, married couple from Las Vegas. He's Doc Chocolate. He's 42, a business coach. She's Karamel she's 40 she's a therapist. They are in an open relationship. Um, and. I know that that means different things to different people, but I mean, these folks are open. You basically pretty much can do whatever you want, as long as you tell each other about it.
Is that pretty much it?
Guests: Yeah, as long as we tell each other about it and we don't end up in jail,
Leyna: Oh, okay. That's good. That's a good rule to have. Um, alright, so let's talk about how you got into this. How long have you guys been together?
Guests: we've been together for, what would you say about 22 years? About, yeah. About 22 years and married for about 18, 18, 18. Yeah.
Leyna: And how long have you been in the lifestyle?
Guests: For six years. We're rookies.
Leyna: Your rookies at six years. Huh? Um, had either of you been involved in lifestyle activities before this?
Guests: No, not at all. Very typical married couple, um,
Leyna: Wait, what does that mean?
Guests: Very just with us, very monogamous with just us, you know, very traditional. No third parties or anything like that. Yeah.
Leyna: All right. Okay. But how was your sex life?
Guests: Sex life was pretty good in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She, she didn't really complain too much, uh, about me. It was pretty good. It was pretty good. I mean, I was her, I was actually her first. And, uh, before her, I had been with maybe six women before that.
And so we were together for what? About 15 years before we got into lifestyle abouts. And, we just pretty had like, , you know, pretty good sex relationship.
Leyna: So actually not like your typical
marriage., um, right.
um, but then what happened? I mean, if things were good. What happened?
Guests: So what had happened, Leyna was, uh, we were watching a Netflix movie and I forgot. Forget what the name of that movie was. But basically it was about two couples that were swingers in the lifestyle. One was like, A veteran couple. And the other was like, they're prey that they were like preying on trying to entice them to come into the lifestyle.
And so it was like a comedy slash drama and we watched it. And then at the end of the movie, you know, Karamel was like, well, doc. Like, what do you think about that? Like, would that be fun to do all that? And of course in my head as a male, I'm like, hell yeah, that would be fun. And you know, but I don't wanna say that cuz you know, I don't wanna be that guy.
And so I was like, uh, I guess it was okay. Karamel, and so one thing led to another and over the next course of a few months, we wound up, getting onto a few lifestyle sites and then we just made the plunge.
Leyna: it was actually a lot of conversation. And then you decided to kind of find out more, right? When people say, oh, we, you know, we had a conversation. What the heck did you talk about.
Guests: Well, the first conversation really just generated from the movie. The second and third and fourth and fifth conversation, started talking about just what do we like sexually? What have we tried again? He was my first, you know, so I didn't have really no experience in, you know, sexual pieces that way, but.
When it came about talking with bringing another partner in that's where I was thinking, well, that would be cool.
Leyna: So you, you, You wanted to try a threesome. Okay. Male. Female.
Guests: male two males? That was one of my fantasies. she's a pillow princess. Yes, I am.
Leyna: Okay. Well, there are many of them. Um, okay. So the first thought is threesome doc. Uh, I'm sure you were you were down for that.
Guests: I mean, it took a lot of finagling and convincing on her part to convince me to get into a threesome but I did it willingly.
Leyna: Are you joking? (I am.) Are you joking or was it okay, but didn't, did you have any issues with the fact that she wanted to, you know, threesome with another man?
Guests: You know, that's a great question, Leyna initially, that wouldn't have been my, you know, my prime thing or objective that I would've wanted, but I was cool with, uh, doing that. If it would satisfy Karamel. So, um, as long it was, there was no sexual contact between me and the other guy besides fist bumps and high fives.
I was good.
Leyna: Right. Okay. All right, so... Tell me about the first experience.
Guests: do you wanna take that? No, you can go ahead. Oh, I can take it. Okay. Okay, cool. We on the hotspot. All right. So, um, the first experience Leyna was, we had a gentleman a big buff guy, black guy bald guy, uh, kind of looked like me except no beard.
 But anyways, I found him on Craigslist and this was back in the day before they took the dating section off of Craigslist. And so anyways, me and him, we had a good conversation and he had been in lifestyle for like ages. I mean, he was an older guy. And long story short. We got him to our house and we had wine drinks, all that.
And then, we basically went upstairs to our master bedroom and, uh, we just had some fun , you
Leyna: No, no, no, no, no. You know, better, you know, better than that. Doc
Guests: Oh, oh no.
Leyna: strike one, strike one.
Guests: Oh, oh, okay. Well, I got two more strikeouts before I strike out. Right. Mm-hmm two more misses. OK.
Leyna: so what happened?
Guests: I knew she was gonna do that. I, she wanted to dig in deeper. Okay. So so when we went upstairs to the bedroom, we took off her clothes and then we were just basically kissing her and just making out with her.
We're going slowly. We were real sensual. So he's a bit similar to me where he's very sensual and romantic, you know, taking slow and then start to escalate the, the, um, The physical activity. , so we would exchange sides. So I would be at the top, he would be at the bottom and I think he was sucking her toes and kissing her inner thighs and rubbing his fingers along her side and on the breast look, she's getting all hot and warm over here.
Leyna: I know I can see her. Look, she's starting to squirm she's squirming right now.
Guests: I love squirming women. Really. And so, uh, we got her naked and then I went down on Karamel first and I consider to myself a gold medalist when it comes to, uh, going down on a woman.
So she enjoyed it. Oh yeah. Yeah. You always enjoy it. And so, um, he was, uh, kissing her at the top and then, uh, we were just. Playing with her, her body just making her feel special, making her feel like a queen and putting her on that pedestal. And then we switched sides and then he went down on her. At that point, I.
Took step back and let him take the lead on it. Cuz I wanted Karamel to have her experience with another person. And um, he took his time. He was reading her body language and when she was ready, you know, he threw on a condom and uh, entered into her. They were doing missionary. She was really nervous. She was looking at me like,
is it. Okay. Is it okay? And I was like, yeah, go get 'em tiger. You know, don't strike out like me. Oh. And, uh, it was good. , I I'll admit Leyna it was a bit unnerving for me you know, in one aspect I was very thrilled. But then in another aspect, I was like, get off my damn wife.
what are you doing? You roots.
Leyna: Um, okay. So, and, and I've heard that explained a lot, but some men actually find that erotic, that nervousness, that kind of a twinge of jealousy, that kind of make things kind of hot. Did you find that?
Guests: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I did, you know, and I got explained to me, I've had several people on my podcast where they, they, they call it angst. And that's what I felt and I, I actually like it.
Leyna: Okay. So Karamel uh, tell me about this experience. I mean, you must have been checking with your husband just to make sure he wasn't gonna freak out right?
Guests: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I think it went really well because yeah, the guy was very, I like to call him the coach. He was, he really was a coach. He talked with us and you know, we built that rapport. It was very sexy. It was.
It was at my pace. Once you into it, it is what it is. , you know, you just kinda let yourself go.
Leyna: okay. Uh, at some point, doc did you uh, get back into the game?
Guests: Yeah. So, uh, once I got back up to the plate and at that point, I mean, I'll be honest. Like I was pretty much out of the game, you know, like my, my Dick went totally limp and I was like, uh, yeah, I, I, I was out for the clock.
I was struck out.
Leyna: Yeah, that ha and that happens to, to some men.
Guests: Yeah. Yeah. Cuz it, it really is a mind thing. You know, like if something is messed up in your mind or, you know, it just messes with everything.
Leyna: But, but you still found the whole experience enjoyable and you were like, let's do this again.
Guests: Yes. Ma'am yes. Ma'am.
Leyna: Okay. How long did it take you until your next experience?
Guests: Now that's a good question. It wasn't that long, but I think we started going to the. The parties. Yeah, yeah, we had been going to different, lifestyle parties and clubs and, clothing, optional pool parties out here in Vegas.
And we really, really got deep into that scene where we were just meeting like crowds of lifestyle people and just, you know, getting naked and just being crazy. And like I do my thing and Karamel will do her thing. And
Leyna: Whoa. Wait, wait, wait, wait, what does that mean?
Guests: so When he says doing his thing, it's just kind of like feeling where you feel the most comfortable at to go ahead and play.
Leyna: So you're talking about like each of you having sex with other people. Oh.
Guests: yeah.
Leyna: Okay. And were there any rules, did you guys discuss rules? Did you have to be in the same room?
Guests: no. Yeah. Basically our, our basic rules back then, cuz like everything evolves, right? Like when you're in the, the lifestyle. And so back then our basic rules were always use protection and. I think that was pretty much it
Leyna: so you guys kind of hopped right into the open marriage thing almost immediately after the threesome, right? yes. Although to me isn't an open relationship, like, cuz to me, it's what you did. Sounds like just full swapping. Right? I, I always thought open relationship was more like, you know, maybe you're at home and Karamel has a date. She can go off and do whatever.
Guests: Yeah, that didn't come until probably like later. like when we first got started, you know, we thought that we were just swinging. Right. And then like it started to evolve where.
 She could do her thing because she prefers to play by herself, play with her own male friends from time to time. And then me I'm open. So I'm a, the guy who's like really like wild and crazy and out there. And I'm probably a male hole. I'm not a hoe, am I? No. Now I'm not. And so
Leyna: So what, what makes you wild and crazy?
Guests: well, I mean, I, I, I do like to,
Take a lot of videos and pictures with the ladies that I connect with. And, um, so I'll do male, female males. I'll do female male females. I'll do, orgies. I've done a gang bang or two in my career. this was not all in the first year though.
Leyna: No. Okay.
Guests: If I could just put it on a timeline in the very beginning. Um, definitely me and him, you know, it was a security thing too with me, you know what I mean? So I, wasn't gonna just be going with just different guys. The evolvement probably of me, um, doing independent play or, or open as you could call it. Uh, didn't come to later on because I started to find out that just, for me, I had to be physically attracted to, the guys, you know what I mean, to really kind of enjoy it. I'm married to a very buff guy. , And so? And even though some of the guys are very nice and I enjoy them, if they physically, it just, it just wasn't really at, you know, attractive to me.
Leyna: you
have a, you have a high bar for physical attraction.
Guests: I really do. And so when you go to these lifestyle parties and you don't get to see that person, you know, a lot of times I would opt out and wouldn't do anything.
You know what I mean? I'm just not feeling it, you know? And I'm the type. I'm not gonna just do it because I can just do it. You know what I mean? I really have to like really connect with the person. Sometimes I'll be talking with 'em in the corner for about five minutes. Like we almost, Nope, nevermind.
You know, or talking, you know, later on I come back to you, like, ah, still not there. , you know, and so I kinda came to the point was like, you know, He really did take the time to vet somebody from me when I got into, you know what I'm saying? When I, when we came into this lifestyle and I think I always tell him, you, the one that set the, you, the one that set the standard, you should have just brought somebody in that first guy should have just been average and normal.
We wouldn't had his problem, cuz he would always say, how come you're not playing? How could be not playing? I'm like, you know, I just, I can't do it. OK.
Leyna: Right. Sure. Well, that's, that's completely understandable. Okay. So then you're into the solo play thing. Uh, did you ever have the, um, like when did you experience your first like male? Uh, female, male, female, the FMF.
Guests: So so, um, I wanted to have an FMF with this lovely young lady over here, but she was a little bit, so go ahead. Okay. So I had, lady friends, and so, uh, most of the ladies in the lifestyle, typically they're some form of bisexual.
Um, or BI friendly, BI curious, whatever you want to term it, uh, define it. And so I had, a lady that actually lived about a mile or two miles away from us and she was very, very BI. And so anyways, we would have these get togethers at her house and, um, these play parties and maybe a few months after our initial, me and Karamel's initial, uh, uh, soire soire into the lifestyle.
There was two those two ladies. So the lady that was my friend and she invited a lady and we had some, uh, some fun time and I, I,
Leyna: was this you and two other women?
Guests: yeah, Soly. Hm.
Leyna: wait a second girl. When, when did you get to, when did you, uh, when did they crown you, uh, pillow princess? I wanna know about the first time it was you caramel with another woman and
Guests: Oh, so lemme talk about that Leyna okay. So here, this is how it goes down. Okay. I can't say that that actually has happened yet. Leyna let me tell you why I have been in the room. I have probably rubbed on a couple backs while they're doing, doing it while they're doing while they're doing their thing. Um, but I've never actually participated and main reason why is I just never really, you know, so never really felt too comfortable with that, going to that point.
Cause when it comes down to it, for me and my personal experience, it gets a little real touchy feely. And even though you can set up the rules, sometimes people follow the rules. Sometimes they don't, you know, if you're like my thing, my biggest thing is we're gonna go ahead and we're gonna please doc, 110%.
You know what I mean? I am not bisexual. I'm not. I like seeing him pleased. I like being a part of the pleasure session, but it's not a pleasure session that I can get with from a woman. So I, it just never really just kind of lined up particularly where it is, you know, he's had his little fantasy.
 His fantasy was, you know what I'm saying? To have two women, you know. My fantasy was to have two men doing everything to me.
My fantasy has not been to have, you know, women to do anything to me. That's not my, that, that was not one of my fantasies.
Leyna: Uh, so, so it is never been a fantasy of yours and you've never really even wanted to try, like, like how do you know you don't like it? If you haven't done it Karamel?
Guests: I've had a woman, like, you know what I'm saying? Like my boob , you know what I mean? Like I've kissed. Yeah. But nothing that is just like, oh my gosh. I just, I really wanna, I just really wanna go ahead and take it a little bit further and just really have that,
 have that experience with her that never arised in me.
Leyna: Let's go to the other swinger stuff that, that y'all do. Have you done the DVP?
Guests: Yes. Yes. So DVP, double vaginal penetration. So the first time I tried doing it, it was with that couple. You remember the, uh, the tall guy and the little short one lady. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so. I've I've always been like really, really, I don't wanna do that, you know? So anyways, like we were at a hotel room, out here in Vegas and he called me up and wanted me to, play with him and, the wife.
She was very attractive and, I went up there and I guess the biggest issue with that Leyna was, the guy was very aggressive, right. And so it wasn't really in a good space for me to totally get into it. We didn't really talk about it beforehand. Right. I've done it where.
Another guy has been anal and I've been vaginal, but I never had done it at that point where it was DVP. So the second that we tried doing DVP, I was laying on my back and then the woman was in the middle and then the husband, he was, uh, crouched over her and doggy style. And like, as soon as his dick touched mine, my dick went totally limp.
And I think what. Was telling me at that point was like, if I'm doing something that's like iffy, my dick will check out. Kinda like the Hulk in the Avengers movie where you remember that, where he was Bruce Banner. And then he tried getting the Hulk to come out and the Hulk was like, no, and that's what my dick was.
I'm not saying that my dick is the incredible Hulk, but cuz it's not green. It's black. Yeah. so sad. Oh, yeah,
Leyna: Okay. all right, so, so we know where you stand with that. Karamel, you ever done it?
Guests: No, no. Leyna no, have not.
Leyna: you ever done it? How about, how about DP?
Guests: No, no. She's never done anal. Uh, so she's, um, a bit nervous about it.
That's just something that's just does not feel remotely comfortable to me at this time, but would you try it?
Leyna: Mm.
Guests: Okay. See. Okay. Yeah. Uh, yes and no. The yes. Part would be the intriguing, the curiosity. The no part is like, okay. I mean, I've seen the, the guys that I've mess with. I know, I know you , dick is too big.
I'm I'm gonna be real with you. I, I'm not the one, you know, where that, you know what I'm saying? I have like this whole visual type piece, you know what I'm saying of how that's gonna be? And I'm just like, no, I just, I refuse. I had, I had a good friend. There was one guy that I was, um, That I really, really like, but his, and I was thinking he, and he's like a master in that.
And he is like, you know, the, where I can really get you into and blah. Yeah. But he like, his dick was like an arm. Hell no, like, you know what I mean? And for some, Hey, for some women more power to my, my sisters and my ladies out there, if you like that, That, that doesn't arouse me. That freaks the fuck outta me.
Cause I'm like, oh no, that's a little bit too much.
Leyna: Understood. You've painted a great picture. You've just painted a great picture for me. Thank you, Karamel. And then lastly, what do you guys think being in the lifestyle has, has done for your marriage?
Guests: I think you just took it to, um, a greater intimacy. More freedom. And more freedom in the intimacy with, with me and with me and doc. That's what I feel. So a lot of times, being married for so long and having intimacy, there are sometimes where you're not just fully free to be open because you kind of fear this, this and that.
What they may kind of perceive, but this actually allows you to talk about things in fullness. And to me, that's something that I really, really relish and it just brings you closer, you know? What about you? I love the connections, so I love the fact that it does allow us to explore, and it allows us to make our marriage, um, healthier.
And it allows us to just. Live like kids cuz we can have fun. It's like going to a candy store and you get to try all types of candy in different aisles and then you get to come back home and have your steak of potatoes. When you've been with somebody for so long, you know, love, you know what I'm saying?
Love sex. all of that is just kind of, kind of crumbed up into one and learning how to separate it is a really big challenge. You know what I mean? The longer you're in this and you have a partner that is willing to, you know what I'm saying, go at your pace. You begin to really break that apart to say, wow, this is just sex.
And this is really, this is really love. This is really my intimacy. Very different. And it's a place that I'm very grateful to be at because at one point, um, I was not there. I didn't know. And I think, um, if any couple they've been doing this, you can actually see it, you know, like sex with another person, isn't a threat anymore.
It doesn't threaten what you have at all, but it takes time to get there and just kinda weave that apart.