EP 084 FLR vs Femdom vs Cuckolding

Female-led relationships in and outside the bedroom. What are the differences between FLR, Femdom, and cuckolding? Tatyana explains how they're intertwined in her marriage to The Hopeful Cuck. She was afraid to tell him his penis was too small to bring her pleasure but turns out--that turns him on. They've found a new dynamic that works for their marriage and brings them both satisfaction.  You can find Tatyana on Twitter at @TatyanaFLR

Ep 84 FLR vs Femdom Vs Cuckolding
Transcription:
Leyna 1:36  What did you actually say to your husband?
Guest 1:38 I think it was something like get him ready for me.

Leyna 1:41 You're so polite.

Guest 1:43 Well, he knew exactly what I meant.
Leyna 1:48
So let's get to it. The conversations you are about to hear are intended for mature audiences. Listener discretion is advised. So dirty, talk so sex talk. Yeah, it started off as dirty talk. I was actually like, very excited to see my partner with somebody else. She looked at me and said, so you want to have sex with other people? That's what you’re saying. And you find it a turn on to hear about what he did. Yeah. And then it's like, I want to come home and get it the way she got it. Does he know you have a boyfriend this is consenting adults with Leyna Nguyen.

(End Podcast Show Open)

Leyna 2:20
My guest today is a 53 year old health care worker from New England who has been with her current husband five years married for three. Tatiana, welcome to the show. You're in what's called an FLR female love relationship. Now I've seen this but as an outsider, I have a hard time distinguishing between an FLR femdom and cuckoldress. Are there differences?
Guest 2:49
Yes, There certainly are differences and everybody kind of does things their own way. All three of those are part of our relationship and it's a dynamic that we've sort of developed over some time. Some of it is something that we sort of just naturally fell into because that's who we are as people. I'm a naturally dominant person. My husband has some submissive qualities and he his love languages, his service, so servicing me, making sure that I'm happy is just a natural thing for him.

Leyna 3:25
Okay, so you've been married before he has your husband? Yes, yes. Okay. So in your previous marriages were either of you in relationships like this?
Guest 3:37
No, not in a way that it was named and recognized. We each had dominant or submissive qualities that we sort of had throughout our lives. But I don't think either of us was in a relationship before where it was recognized, and we explored it

Leyna 3:53
Okay. Let's see if we can kind of dissect how this happens. Did you meet How did you meet?
Guest 3:59
We met through friends years ago, and then we reconnected Well, five years ago. Now we reconnected and got together.

Leyna 4:07
Okay, so it was like, like, the way people do in the vanilla world. Right? It's not like you've met on FetLife or anything? No, no, no. Okay. How far into the relationship? Did you kind of know that you've got this dominant side that you're really going to let out and how did you know that he would let you do that?
Guest 4:30
Just a natural living, you know, vanilla living. I just tend to be more dominant. I want things done the way I want them done. We are best friends we get along in every way aspect possible. Our sex life was not working for us. It just was not working. Each of us, I guess, didn't feel comfortable kind of revealing who we actually were in that matter. And about almost a year ago, my husband came to me and had a conversation said this is not working. We need to figure something out. You know, and he actually at that time revealed his cuckold fantasy, and I had been having the same feelings like I knew it just wasn't not not cuckolding, but just that it wasn't working. And we just we were at a standstill whether that we needed to either fix it or we were going to end up separating.

Leyna 5:23
Okay, so when you say that this your sex like really just wasn't working for you. What do you mean?
Guest 5:29
So for me, the things that work best for me are variety. I need things to not be the same all the time. And for him he he needs clear direction. He needs things. He doesn't want to overstep. So, and each of us I had said before each of us hadn't really revealed some of our kind of innermost secrets because I think each of us was afraid of, you know, the others reaction, so we weren't communicating well, and
Leyna 5:59
but was the sex enjoyable, like like physically was it enjoyable?

Guest 6:03
So it was but his penis just when we had penis in, in vagina sex, it just didn't do it for me. It just didn't. And we had tried different positions. We had tried different things. We both ended up getting frustrated, then again, we weren't communicating. So it just was a slippery slope it going down a bad path,

Leyna 6:24
so not not the good slippery slope. Is he's smaller than what you need. Is that what you're saying? That's correct. Okay. This is why women are wonderful. Because despite that, like you love him very much. And you're still with him? Yeah. So like you're able to, like work around it exactly. Right. Some somehow make something of it. Did you ever tell him this?
Guest 6:55
Not in so many words. I didn't come out and say bluntly, you know, this, this isn't working because your penis is too small. Little did I know that he would come to me a year ago and have this conversation that he wanted me to go and sleep with men that had larger penises. S

Leyna 7:13
So just like looking, looking back. Would it have turned him on for you to tell him that? Oh, absolutely.
Guest 7:21
He used to say to me, he had like these deep dark fantasies but he would never tell me what they were. He just never felt comfortable enough. And, you know, I just I wasn't going to push him. In retrospect, I probably should have. Mm hmm.
Leyna 7:39
And you've been pushing him ever since. Exactly. So what were these deep dark fantasies he had?
Guest 7:44
He had in his mind because he thought it was not as normal as you know, as it actually is, was a cuckolding fantasy he wanted. He wants to see me pleasured in ways that he can't. He wants to watch me with another man. He wants to participate as directed. He just that makes him happy. And it makes me happy because and I'm getting satisfied in a way that we can't have in our marriage.

Leyna 8:13
So really the best of both worlds exactly now. Many people have said and I happen to agree that sex is like 80% in my head, right? Except the physical part of it. isn't that important? I mean, it's got to be there. So then, because you had an issue with his size is the sex between you guys better now because now you've really amped up the mental part of it.

Guest 8:39
Oh, absolutely. And the the thing that has made it better is that we're talking. We just weren't communicating. We weren't able to tell each other things that maybe were uncomfortable. And now we have conversations about it. And because we've gone down this path of alar I just say spit it out, like you we're not going to have these roadblocks anymore. We're very fortunate because during this pandemic, there were a lot of couples, vanilla couples, you know, BDSM, FLR, whatever, couples that didn't make it through this pandemic, and we put time and effort into it to make sure that we were talking and that we weren't going to be one of those statistics.

Leyna 9:19
Right. In the beginning. Was that enough just to talk about it? Did it fuel your sex life to talk about it?
Guest 9:25
Yes, it did. We started talking about it. We started being more open about what exactly that looked like. And of course a year ago what it looked like what our thought process was of how we're going to proceed in versus now are completely different. Well, not completely, but it certainly evolved.

Leyna 9:41
So in the beginning, what did you think it was going to look like?

Guest 9:44
So we thought that it was going to be an occasional thing. We thought that it would be something we would add to our life and it wouldn't be our life. And now it has evolved into especially since you know with the pandemic and everything. So we have developed more of our own sort of dynamic working on our FLR and the femdom kind of part of it being able to communicate that and and work that out has been much different than the path we originally thought.

Leyna 10:17
Okay, let's talk about your first physical manifestation of these fantasies that you guys had, what did you do?
Guest 10:27
We met someone actually through Twitter and it's been a wealth of knowledge. There's such a great community on Twitter for the this kind of lifestyle, and it's such a great support group, but through Twitter, we had started talking to someone we both like him we we talked back and forth via messaging and then we decided that you know, we would meet this person via zoom. We both agreed that any first meeting would be with us together. And then we set up a date to go and meet this person in person. And we decided at that time to kind of take it further than that. And we had gotten a hotel room

Leyna 11:05
on the way on the first date, yes or no.

Guest 11:08
It was so that it was the first in person meeting.

Leyna 11:11
So you met this guy in person. There's something there. Right, you go to the hotel room. Tell me what happened

Guest 11:19
Partway through meeting at the bar, I said no, my husband I and he like kind of gave me that look, too. And so I walked over to the hotel, prepared myself, both mentally and physically. And then he brought the individual over to the hotel room. And then I just started directed it from there. I which we both thought that we'd each be very nervous and we would kind of not really know what to do, but it actually turned out to be wonderful as far as us communicating. The physical part didn't work out well for us. Why not? This, this individual could not keep an erection. Oh so a you know and

Leyna 14:25
He needs swinger insurance!
Guest 14:28
Hello? Yes. We tried and at the beginning it was great. It was you know we we were having some fun and then he just couldn't keep an erection. And there was a point that my husband looked at my eyes and he just knew that I was done. And it was so us building that trust and that sort of that silent communication. That's why it was more of a great first experience for us because we knew that no matter what, it was still gonna be us right we're still gonna be us and we're still gonna have that bond.

Leyna 15:02
Right? So when you're looking at a first experience, can you walk me through like, like literally what happened? Because you may think, oh, you know, let's meet this guy at a hotel and then he and I will have sex, but like what actually happened? Was your husband just watching was he in the corner? Was he on the bed with you? Can you tell me what happened and how it got started?

Guest 15:24
Sure. So my husband is bisexual. So his preference is to have some participation. We agreed that it would be my direction and it still is. When we first got to the hotel room. I directed him to sit on the couch. And this individual and I we just started kissing and you know, touching each other. There was a point that I asked my husband to remove part of my clothing. So he was doing things at my direction to assist in sort of the progression. No,

Leyna 16:02
No, no, no. Here's that laugh. See, I recognize that laugh. That laugh means you know what's coming. What do you mean assisting like, so do you like like what did you when you say you do you directed your husband to assist? What are you talking about?

Guest 16:23
So things like removing my clothing, things like I told you my husband's bi so in the term of the lifestyle he helped fluff. So

Leyna 16:35
He know Hold on a second because because you guys hadn't done this before. Right?
Guest 16:40
Right. We had not done before together. Okay,

Leyna 16:43
So so when you're in the room, I mean, you don't say fluff him, right?
Guest 16:51
I'm not exactly wasn't those words, but this was something we had discussed previously that this was something he wanted. So

Leyna 16:59
Right. So But did the language come naturally to you? Like in the moment like what did you actually say to your husband?

Guest 17:11
I think it was something like get him ready for me.

Leyna 17:16
Huh? You're so polite.

Guest 17:19
Well it, he knew exactly what I meant.

Leyna 17:27
All right. So you you asked your husband very politely to get the guy ready for you? Correct. And he was happy to do it.

Guest 17:41
He was he tells me after that experience that when he realized how much of a submissive he is. He had sub drop like he'd never experienced before after that experience. So what does that mean? So after being in a very submissive place, I'm only describing it from what I've been told. I've never been in this kind of mindset, right? But it's like this euphoric state where you just you are so happy, but you're so out of control or not out of control. Is that's not really the right word, but sort of you just are living in that happy euphoric state and just aren't able to do much

Leyna 18:26
else. Almost like in a trance. Yeah.

Guest 18:38
One of the things that we’ve talked about so in this dynamic is that as my dominants shows more his submissive shows more and he will voice things he wants or needs and I tell him all the time that I listen very well and I’m going to put that into play and even in that first experience cuz it was something that we both wanted it was not anything I thought of before but once he brought it to me I knew it would be the path for us.That we are going to explore this and this is the thing that makes us better.

Leyna 19:07
Okay, so you knew your husband was bisexual?

Guest 19:08
I didn’t know he was bisexual when we first met and married. But part of the whole thing when we were not having good sex one of the things he was able to tell me was that he had bisexual feelings and he maybe 6 months after that told me about some experiences he had and that him sucking penis was one of his things he liked to do.
Leyna 19:36 It didn't turn you off when he revealed this to you.
Guest 19:37 No, it did not.

Leyna 19:38 But did it but did it turn you on? Or were you just like, oh, okay,

Guest 19:44 It it didn't it doesn't turn me on specifically. It turns me on to make him happy to make a situation where I'm getting something that I need but I can also bring him into play so that he's getting something he needs to.

Leyna 20:03
Okay, so now that you're you're in the lifestyle Okay, so now that you've done it, it specifically that first time when you saw your husband going down on this guy, what was your reaction?


Guest 20:12 I don't really know how to describe it. I was kind of a little shocked to see it in person, but also really happy because he I knew this was something that he wanted. And I knew that, you know, this was something that was just working well for us. So it was it was a bag of mixed emotions. 

Leyna 20:38 Okay, but what were you turned on at all?

Guest 20:39 It was I was turned on in the moment it because we were in the situation and I knew that he was getting this man ready for me and we were going to be you know, this couple doing this thing. And so in the moment it was but like just sitting here thinking about it. It's not something that would turn me on but just in the moment it does.

Leyna 20:59 Okay, and that's a very important distinction. So then I'm going to see if this makes sense, this question.
Leyna 21:12 Does it ever come back to you like when you're not having sex when you're not in the bedroom? Do those things come back to you? Do you remember seeing him do that? And does it affect you in any way?

Guest 21:26 Um, it does, because it puts me back in those moments. It me reminds me of you know, that those experiences that we had and you know, but those are good memories, very good memories, like it's okay, you know,
Leyna 21:38 So it doesn't come back to you and like make you think any less of him or anything. Like that.

Guest 21:45 No, not okay. And that was that was one of his major worries. And I think it probably it still is that he's worried that I'm going to think less of him or worried that you know, because he's very submissive that I'm going to, you know, think of them as not a manly man. anymore,

Leyna 22:01 Which has got to be every closeted cuckolds worry, right that their woman will think less of them, which is probably why a lot of men don't reveal these fantasies to their partners.
Guest 22:16 Oh, I would agree. I would agree. And I think that's why it took him so long to reveal it. To me.
Leyna 22:19 Right? And then really, it takes a certain kind of woman to accept it, to like it, and to not think less of her husband or partner for wanting those things. Right?

Guest 22:31 Agreed. He said to me that he's had partners in the past that he thought he wanted to try it with, but he knew he couldn't because they just were not capable.

Leyna 22:44 Right. Fast forward that you've only been doing this for how long a year, about a year. And have you had a lot of experiences in that year with you know, pandemic and everything.


Guest 22:53Yeah, we haven't had a ton because like I said, because of the pandemic, not only just finding people because you know, you're trying to socially distance and all that stuff, but because I work in healthcare, it's it's been a it's been a very stressful couple years. So at one point, I just kind of shut the door on it as far as finding another person to play with us my stress level just trying to do the whole internet dating and you know, kissing a million frogs to find the prince kind of thing was just seemed like another thing on my plate.
Leyna 23:26
It’s hard for the vanilla public, let alone exactly finding finding this little you know, nugget. Would you say that you've progressed much as far as things that you know, you want things that you would like to do in this year. Like it started off with this, what are you at now?
Guest 23:45
So I think during this past year, our femdom and FLR has developed tremendously, because we're communicating so much better. And because we both sort of fallen into our natural roles. When we at the beginning, we said this was going to be sort of a part time thing. We'll do it here and there. It'll be like playing and now every day. We're in that sort of dom subspace. He greets me at the door on his knees. Oh, yeah. So you know, Yep, exactly. It just puts me in charge. I like things done my way and I want them done my way.
Leyna 24:21 Right. This really allows you both to just be right you're not exactly hiding anything, and it's not forced. Which is pretty awesome. All right. So let's, let's push COVID aside for a second and let's say the world is back to normal. That's my fantasy. Right up there with mine too. Yeah. Oh, what is your like ultimate? Like, what would you really like to do? Like if all things were you know, back to normal and easy again? What do you guys want wanting to do?
Guest 24:51Going to a lifestyle club or going to one of those big splash type events? is definitely on our list of things to do.

Leyna 25:00
You know, I really need to get into the party planning business. That's what I need to do. I need to I need to have like one big consenting adults party.
Guest 25:08
That would be awesome.
Leyna 25:11
Right? We could have like an alumni party. Perfect for past guests. Sign me up. I think I might do that.