EP 076 Living a Secret Life

​In a long time marriage that has been sexless for the past few years, Kristie has been living a secret life; meeting men online, and hooking up for sex. It started with an encounter inside an adult bookstore. After years of covering up, hiding, and lying, this is the first time the story is being told.
Enjoying the content? Please consider supporting the show at BuyMeACoffee.com/LeynaNguyen

EP 76 Living a Secret Life
Transcription:

​Leyna 0:00
And what is the secret that you have that even your wife doesn't know? 

Guest 0:05
You know, there have been several times when I've almost been caught. She's leans a lot more towards the vanilla side. You know, I'm actually having sex with another person. So that in itself is would be cheating on your spouse or cheating on your mate. 

Leyna 0:22
Is it a turn on to be dressing in women's clothing? 

Guest 0:24
Yeah. I don't feel bisexual. But you know, I guess if I'm engaging with sex as a man with a man. It's almost like a feel like I would be a really good criminal because I have to cover my tracks.

Guest 0:39
He pulled his pants down and started, you know, sucking on his penis, 

Leyna 0:40
And then that was your first time. Yeah. And it turns you on. Yeah.

Guest 0:50
If I was to tie my partner up, I could have my way with her for the whole weekend. 

Leyna 0:56
Get ready. This is consenting adults. 

(Podcast Show Open)

Leyna 1:32
Hi everyone hope you're enjoying the content here on consenting adults. Please leave us a rating on Apple podcasts and tell your friends about us. If you'd like to become a member and join our fun community while supporting this show, just visit us at buymeacoffee.com/leynanguyen my guest today is 50 year old Kris from Arizona. Of all the people I've had on the show, Kris truly lives a secret life. He is married, but his wife does not know about this other life that he leads. So Kris, first of all, thank you for coming on the show and trusting me enough to tell your story because I think that was certainly you can't be the only one out there who's doing this. And what is the secret that you have that even your wife doesn't know? 

Guest 2:20
I enjoy dressing in women's clothing and meeting men. 

Leyna 2:26
Are you bisexual? 

Guest 2:28
That’s a strange question. I mean, I guess I am I don't feel bisexual but you know, I guess if I'm engaging with sex as a man with a man, then I guess that could be considered bisexual. 

Leyna 2:41
Okay, I think that people who especially like vanilla public, they're very black and white. Right? So Right. They're like, Well, yeah, if you're a man and you're having sex with another man, that's bisexual. Correct. But I've talked to enough people that I think I understand the pause that to give because when you are engaging in sexual activity with other men, you're not Kris. You're Kristie Correct? 

Guest 3:10
Yeah, in my mind, I'm yes more of a woman. 

Leyna 3:13
Right. So can you go back and tell me like When did this start like was there cross dressing as you were growing up? 

Guest 3:21
I think at first engaged in trying on women's clothing probably towards the end of high school. 

Leyna 3:28
And when you say women's clothing, do you mean like undergarments or do you mean like actual clothing? 

Guest 3:32
A little bit of both. I you know, I think I started out with you know, maybe a bra and nightie and then from there went on to a dress and as I got into college, I bought some heels, some stockings and it just kind of went on from there. 

Leyna 3:49
Now, is it a turn on to be dressing in women's clothing? Yes. This is just so interesting to me. Because you are not the first crossdresser to contact me.

Leyna 4:00
And I am so intrigued by really the psychology behind it. Because it's like I talked to a man who like felt he was someone different. Like when he puts on women's clothing. He feels like a woman like like he steps outside of his body and he's someone else. Do you feel that same way? 

Guest 4:23
I would say close, close to that. I still have kind of, you know, in the back of my mind that I guess in case I see someone I know or if I need to get out of the situation quickly. There's still that the man part of me that doesn't completely let me go to my woman persona.

Leyna 4:41
Now at what point in your life, did you or have you ever had emotional feelings? For other men? 

Guest 4:50
That’s a good question. No, I have not 

Leyna 4:53
And you still don't correct. And when you're engaging in sexual activities with other men. Clearly it's enjoyable. Yes, yes. But there's no emotion involved? 

Guest 5:04
No, not really. There's the physical pleasure and there's not an emotional attachment inside of me. There's, I guess that emotional feeling the sexual emotional feeling, but there's no there's no attachment to the other person.

Leyna 5:16
Have you shared this with anyone else in your life? I don't think I have. Yeah, it's pretty secretive. Okay. So you've never been with a partner where she knew? Correct. And why is that? Do you feel like they wouldn't understand or accept it? 

Guest 5:33
Yeah, you know, that's part of it. Because there's also the point of, you know, I'm actually having sex with another person. So that in itself is would be cheating on your spouse or cheating on your mate, 




Leyna 5:45
Unless they knew and approved and you just have never been in that kind of relationship. Correct. But aside from the sexual part of it, have you ever shared that you like to dress in women's clothing with any of your partners? No.

Guest 5:58
My current relationship we've been married for quite a long time. So prior to this relationship, I wasn't really engaging in the cross twisting part of that that much. 

Leyna 6:11
Okay, but then I'm sorry, through throughout the years. I mean, because you kind of discovered it while in high school right? You're now 50. Right? So 30 plus years. You've been hiding this from everybody? Yes. Is part of I mean, do you wish you could be open or are you okay? Living like a double life? 

Guest 6:32
Oh, I think I'd be okay with it. If I found the right partner. You know, it's one of those issues where if it ever left, my partner and I if friends knew, you know, other family members knew, you know, that would be kind of uncomfortable, right? 

Leyna 6:50
How do you know that the partner you have now wouldn't be open to it? 

Guest 6:54
I wish I don't know completely. You know, there have been several times when I've almost been caught. She's leans a lot more towards the vanilla side.

Leyna 7:04
And when you said you've almost been caught, but what are you talking about what happened?

Guest 7:09
I've had some undergarments found I've had a pair of my heels found. I've had some some of my dresses found by her. 

Leyna 7:21
And what was your explanation? 

Guest 7:22
Well, when she found the heels I just said, you know, it was it was a fetish of mine. Not that I wore them, but you know that I really love the image of women in high heels. That along with the sexy undergarments. I just said I again, it was a turn on and since she didn't wear those sorts of heels or undergarments that you know, I would use them to masturbate with. 

Leyna 7:45
And how did she respond? 

Guest 7:46
She was pretty confused. I think she's still kind of doesn't understand even though that happened, you know, probably five to 10 years ago. 

Leyna 7:56
Okay, how do you keep all of this stuff away from someone that you've lived with? For so long? Like where's your stash honey? 

Guest 8:04
Right. Um, my car trunk has been a big part of it, and then just boxes and Tupperware totes in my garage. It's almost like I feel like I would be a really good criminal because I have to cover my tracks. So I may have a small Tupperware tub inside of a larger Tupperware tub. So that way if someone were to see the first Tupperware tub with whatever random items on top of it, they wouldn't search further.

Leyna 8:33
So you've gotten really good at hiding? Yes. Okay. Can you talk me through so we know that you… You know since high school I have had a thing for putting on women's clothing. At what point did it move further than that? At what point did you like start seeing other men? 

Guest 8:55
Probably with the Internet. You know, with technology as technology advanced. There was really a whole other world out there that you know, you can log on to a chat room or porn itself became readily available. Then Then there was Craigslist. So you could you know, your your contacts were almost at your fingertips. 

Leyna 9:17
And of course now there's FetLife right do you do you meet people through FetLife? 

Guest 9:22
One or two people I have? I think the majority of people that I've met so far have been either through Craigslist or other websites. You know, obviously because of the pandemic last year that kind of slowed any sort of dressing or meeting of people. 

Leyna 9:40
If I could ask, Did you at any point in your life feel like like this was wrong? 
Um It doesn't sound it yeah, maybe not. It doesn't sound like you battled with anything. 

Guest 9:52
You’re not necessarily wrong, but you know, kinda there was there's some guilt associated with it. If I'm spending time as Kristie Why can I not be spending time as a husband or a father or you know, other activities.

Leyna 10:06
So, where does your wife think you are when you're out with other men? 

Guest 10:12
Well, luckily, due to my work schedule, I normally just meet men during the day. Oh, yeah. 

Leyna 10:20
Okay, so we should tell people you're you're you're in sales and customer service so you're able to meet men during the day. Okay, let's get to the kind of dates that you have. Now, the men you're meeting with know that you're a man dressed as a woman. Correct. Okay. Can you do we even remember the first time you engaged with another man? 

Guest 10:45
I do. Oh, I was at an adult bookstore. Where it had like small private rooms where you would you know, watch adult videos. 

Leyna 10:56
That’s like old school, right? That's old school. Yeah, I've only read about it. 

Guest 10:58
Yeah, that is probably, you know, early 90s. So 30 years ago, and so I went dressed but I hadn't done I wasn't experienced at doing my makeup yet. So I went pretty much just in a dress, heels stockings. I don't even think I had a wig on. And so I went in in a booth and was watching some videos and a guy came in think we kind of knew I guess what was going to happen. So I think he pulled his pants down. I started, you know, sucking on his penis, and then 


Leyna 11:31
That was your first time. Yeah. And it turns you on. Yeah. That doesn't sound convincing. 

Guest 11:35
Well, in that sense, it was that first time I was, you know, still kind of I guess I'm nervous. Yeah.

Unknown 11:43
And he, even though I said I don't have any like emotional attachment, he was just didn't seem like my type of man. That makes sense. And so I was actually sitting in a chair and he was standing so I said, Let's trade places. He sat down and I left. Oh, yeah, I mean, it was the first experience was a whole minute, maybe two. Oh, wow. Yeah. 

Leyna 13:07
Okay, but it was enough that you wanted more. 

Guest 13:10
Yeah. I mean, it was enough that I wanted to try it again. Because I knew there was there was different experiences out there. 

Leyna 13:18
And like where are you today? Like what what kind of sexual activities are you into today? 

Guest 13:25
My favorite would be giving oral. I tell the men that I'm submissive and that I really prefer a dominant man. So I really like when they're in control. I have and I've kind of dipped into the anal sex part of it. But that would be something that I would want to explore more giving or receiving, receiving.

Leyna 13:45
So when you're in bed with your wife, do these thoughts of your rendezvous with other men? Do they ever enter your head? 

Guest 13:54
Yes Yeah, I would say I probably have in the past. Our sexual relationship hasn't really happened in a few years. So 




Leyna 14:04
You haven't had sex with your wife in a few years? Correct. And have you guys talked about this? 

Guest 14:10
Yes. That's kind of that would lead us lead us down a different road as to why are we haven’t had sex are a different part of our relationship?

Leyna 14:19
And why is it that she just not wanted anymore? 

Guest 14:22
Um, no, I would say just over the course of our relationship, we've kind of become more of roommates. Ya know that. I guess the passion isn't there. 

Leyna 14:36
Which actually happens in a lot of marriages. Correct. But you still care for each other? You still love each other. So you stay married. Do you have kids? Yes. Yes. And yes.

Leyna 14:45
Do you know if she's having sex with other people? 

Guest 14:50
I would 99.9% would have to say she's not. 

Leyna 14:55
And do you say that because she just doesn't come off as a very sexual person. It's not that important to her. 

Guest 15:01
Yeah, I would say you know, that's kind of one of the one of the reasons it just that's the other way she grew up and her personality. 

Leyna 15:09
In a perfect world. What would you be doing? Would you be with someone else who also accepted this other part of you or are you okay, right now, just status quo?

Guest 15:19
I think in a perfect world, I'd be single and I would have days when I was went out on dates as Kristie and then times when I'd meet women as Kris.

Leyna 15:30
Have you ever dressed in women's clothing and had sex with a female? No. And does that appeal to you at all? 

Guest 15:39
Um, yeah. You know, because there are, I guess, dominant women out there as well. So yeah, I would, you know, I would find that a turn on. 

Leyna 15:48
So are you saying then then the only sexual activity you've been having the last few years have have been with other men because you and your wife don't have sex? Yes. Do you have any desire to have sex with other women? 

Guest 16:01
Yes, definitely. Oh, dresses. Kristie. Kristie likes men. And when when Kris is around, Kris definitely likes women.

Leyna 16:10
What's interesting to me is that one you are being unfaithful. Correct. Is there a part of you that kind of makes that okay, because it's with other men and not other women? Like why haven't you been with other women? 

Guest 16:27
You know, you kind of you kind of hit that that nail on the head there in my mind to kind of if I can rationalize it somehow. Yeah, even though it's still being unfaithful. I guess. That's how I rationalize it. 

Leyna 16:40
Is there a reason why, I mean, other than being afraid of judgment. Are there any other reasons why you haven't told anybody? 

Guest 16:49
I would say the biggest reason reason would be judgment. I can't go it'd be tough to go play around a golf with my friends if you know if they knew. Yeah, sure. 

Leyna 17:00
I’m just wondering if there's any part of the living a secret life as part of the turn on, you know, because sometimes when we do things that are taboo, we do things that are bad or right you know, we that that is part of the turn on. Is there any of that with you? 


Guest 17:16
I would say there, there has to be, you know, even in regular married couples, they engage in taboo sexual activities where they're probably turned on a little bit because they're pushing their limits.

Leyna 17:31
I'm not sure you'd be happy as being an openly like, I don't know if you'd be happy if you were openly living as a man who is a crossdresser who liked to meet up with other men and everyone knew about it. I'm not sure that that would make you happy. 

Guest 17:47
No, I would agree. Yeah, cuz I you know, I'm fairly fit. I work out regularly, you know, lift weights I run I'm not overly muscular where I'm, you know, look like a bodybuilder where I can't fit into a dress. But you know, I do enjoy my masculine activities as well. 

Leyna 18:02
So when you are dressed as Kristie, is there anything else about you that changes other than what you're wearing? Like do you know if your mannerisms change if I don't know do your likes and wants change while clearly with sex but 

Guest 18:19
Right, a little bit, you know, like if dressed as Kristie sure there would be like, I wish I even had a female friend. Where I can say, hey, you know, let's look at dresses or, you know, go shopping, talking about different sorts of hairstyles and makeup trends. 

Leyna 18:36
So you think it would be cool to have like a girlfriend like a girlfriend and do that girl talk? Yeah, absolutely. How do you get away with Well, probably the internet. How do you get away with buying this stuff? Do you order it online? Or do you actually go out and buy things? 

Guest 18:51
For the most part? I've gone out and and bought things Yeah, cuz like when I started 30 years ago, oh, no, I'm buying 

Leyna 19:00
So anything else you haven't? Told us? So you've got the secret life? Which How long have you been married? 


Guest 19:05
Over 30 years? 

Leyna 19:06
Wait, what? You've been married over 30 years and this woman has no idea?

Guest 19:15
Oh, you know, like I said there's been some close calls.

Leyna 19:18
Do you think maybe she knows but could just doesn't want to go there? Is there a possibility? 

Guest 19:25
There’s a possibility, I think, you know, especially when she found that she found a pair of heels. It had to have crossed her mind. 

Leyna 19:35
What was your reaction? Was she mad? Or 

Guest 19:38
I think she was more confused. She was she was a little mad, I think because, you know, I was getting my sexual pleasure from something or some where else besides her. So she kind of felt as if she wasn't enough for me or wasn't the right type of person. 

Leyna 19:58
Hold on a second. What size are those heels? 

Guest 20:00
The ones I ever whichever ones I fit in? 

Leyna 20:03
Okay, so but so like when she found those heels, right? I mean, they weren't like, you know, size six, right? 

Guest 20:09
She knew they weren't woman's heels because yeah, they I think they're probably size 11.

Leyna 20:12
So I'm wondering if maybe she has an inkling that that there is this you know, secret part of you and she's not comfortable going there with you. 

Guest 20:21
A very good possibility. 

Leyna 20:23
Do you have fantasies that you'd like to fulfill? 

Guest 20:25
I would think so. Yeah. The gist of my fantasy would be, you know, meeting dominant men. You know, like I see I love being submissive, almost being used, maybe, you know, explore some being degraded. 

Leyna 20:38
I’m a bit confused because you said you only have started to dabble with anal sex. Correct. Is most of your sexual activity than just oral both giving and receiving with other men? 

Guest 20:50
Actually just giving? Oh, yeah. Why is that? Just because when I'm dressed as Kristie it just every crossdresser is completely different, right? I just prefer if a guy was touching my penis to me, then I wouldn't feel feminine. A lot of cross dressers out there and they've even contacted me, let's say on FetLife where they like to get together with other cross dressers, you know, dressed together and play together. But for me, that's not what I'm into. 

Leyna 21:20
I see. Interesting. I have talked to another crossdresser who told me that there aren't a lot of like support groups out there. Unlike like cuckolds, they have a very strong community and they lean on each other. And really, you're not looking for that or are you like would you you know, sex aside so we're not talking sexual activity. But do you think you would like and benefit from talking to being with other cross dressers? 

Guest 21:49
Yeah, I think so. Either other cross dressers or men that wanted date cross dressers, you know, they may not be particularly interested in me, but if they're interested in that, sure, they have, you know, their own perspective on on the whole situation.

Leyna 22:04
And do you think those men are different? meaning It's just like another layer of fetish, where there are men who like to receive oral or like to have sex with other men, but then there are men who like to be engaged with other men dressed as women? 

Guest 22:26
Yeah. Oh, definitely. It runs the spectrum. 

Leyna 22:28
Your wants and needs as Kris, are they pretty vanilla like with other women like 

Guest 22:34
I wouldn't say they're very extreme. But as Kris I would definitely enjoy exploring whatever myself and or my partner, you know, if we talked about and had different fantasies that that we wanted to explore. You know, I'd like to that to say that as Kris, you know, maybe go camping and out in the wilderness. There's plenty of activities you can get involved in 

Leyna 22:57
What? 

Guest 23:00
You could, you could run through the forest naked, you know, you could, yeah, you could tie each other to a tree or, you know, play different roles. 

Leyna 23:07
Like what?

Guest 23:09
Well, you know, Little Red Riding Hood. Sure. If I was to tie my partner up, I could have my way with her for the whole weekend, or, you know, you know, 

Leyna 23:21
Like rape fantasy, 

Guest 23:23
More of a, I guess, consensual, non consensual where my partner would obviously consent to being tied up the same way if it was if it was her turn that she wanted to tie me up and have her way with me while we were camping. Hey, 

Leyna 23:34
See, I wasn't expecting that. I wasn't expecting that.
Leyna 23:36
All right. Well, Kris, I really appreciate you talking to me and and I find it just fascinating. I can't believe that you really haven't told anyone else in your life. So I feel honored that you trust me enough to tell me 

Guest 23:54
Well, thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, it's you know, it's one of the things I can't just walk up to my to a friend and say, hey, you know, found these nice pair of strappy heels that I bought and looking forward to wearing them. I mean, it's he you know, sure like Okay, see you in a couple years.

Leyna 24:11
Well, Kris, Arizona and California are not too far. If you if you find a good sale, you give me a call. Absolutely.
My thanks to Kris for telling me his story, and this is also a nod to the several crossdressers who've messaged me; you are not alone.  Alright, next time on Consenting Adults, let's get back into the swing of things, shall we?  A very attractive couple talks to me about their jealousy kink and living out their ultimate rape fantasy.

Guest: As I stood there i was just shaking cuz I was so nervous, like what the hell am i doing, how did I get to this point? At one point I just shoved it in and kind of deep-throated her.  That's next time, on Consenting Adults.