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J and his wife were a full swap couple but the lifestyle broke up their marriage. Cheating occurs with swingers and it can be devastating. But he learned a lot of valuable lessons and is not in the lifestyle with his new wife. He went from being a very jealous person to being a swinger to being a bull and now he's something totally different. You can find him on Twitter: @HotExposureIR
Support this show and get bonus and exclusive content at BuyMeAcoffee.com/LeynaNguyen
Like immediately like she doesn't shower off. Yeah. Is that part of the turn on?
It is like I want to I want to taste her. I want to I want to kiss her. I want to I want to point the fact that she's not too sore already depending on how big the guy is.
Get ready. This is consenting adults.
(Podcast Show Open)
The conversations you're about to hear are intended for mature audiences. If adult themes are offensive to you, well, you might want to pull out now! So dirty talk? So sex talk. Yeah, it started off as dirty talk. I was actually like very excited to see my partner with somebody else. She looked at me and said, so you want to have sex with other people.
And you find it a turn on to hear about what he did. Yeah. And then it's like, I want to come home and get it the way she got it. Does he know you have a boyfriend? Yes. This is Consenting Adults with Leyna Nguyen
(End Podcast Show Open)
My guest today. Is a 40 year old man who's a fitness instructor from Colorado, who is now married, but before this marriage was in another marriage, and they were a full swap couple. Apparently it didn't work out. So I'm interested to know what's different now because now he's in the lifestyle again. Jay, welcome to the show. You were married before this? Yes. For how long? And how long? Were you in the lifestyle then?
So I was married for about 12 years. Now, mind you. This was a wife. A lady that I've met when I was 19 years old. And we got into the lifestyle about 2007. We got married in 2002. So about five years we got into the lifestyle and we didn't really play we didn't really do too much. We just talked about it. There's some research to almost like three years later to when we actually started playing.
Was it easy to get started?
You know what, back then it was so different. I was but it wasn't I would say it was because because it wasn't like a big group so you could keep keep things more private. Everything wasn't so like commercialized as the way it is now. But it was more difficult because of the fact that like to find people it was more complicated wasn't a vast network as it is today.
Okay, so when you got started in the lifestyle the first time with your wife, was it a slow progression Did you do what many swingers do as you know you'll start with a soft swap and then eventually make it to full swap or where you guys like bam right right at the get go.
Yeah, so um, so first and foremost, we got actually take it back to how we even got into that lane. back then. I was I was super young, little insecure. very jealous. Oh, right. Right. And it's so weird how my life has turned out to be somewhere along the line. My ex wife said you know she had a fantasy of being with another woman. So of course that's like to any guy. Let's go Let's do it. And but we really didn't know much about it or like how to do it. And we knew we didn't want to deal with friends. We thought that that would be a little bit too close to home. But one day was watching a 2020 special on alternative lifestyle relationships, whatever. And we found out this there's a thing called swinging thing called lifestyle. So we went on Google, and we found a party in Denver, and we went to it. We didn't find anybody. But it was a good eye opener to see what type of couples out there. So to answer your question, the first time we actually played, we went full swap. It didn't really make sense to do the soft swap, kissing, touching robbing and not actually like it just was kind of weird to us. He was like we're gonna do it. Let's do
it. Uh huh. And you said you're a very jealous person, how did that work out to see your wife with someone? What were you in the same room?
Yes, definitely. Same room. I think would changed with me is that I felt like I was a part of the process when I was jealous is more so because I didn't have reassurance and I saw my wife at the time looking at another guy you know, checking out another guy. It's like that's her and her fantasy. I'm not a part of it. And in fact and sometimes you feel like you almost being replaced. And as you're doing it as a couple is like we doing it together we communicating we find out what each other want likes desires, and you feel more secure with the situation. Plus on the same token, you know, I'm getting someone to play with too so sometimes my focus is on is on my own Avenue, as she's focusing on her her own avenue
Right. So through that conversation, and then through the activities did did it seem more like just an activity like it was just sex whereas before that the insecurities might have been a little more like emotional or intimate. Right. So now you guys are like planning these activities together.
Yeah, I mean, if we look at the first couple that we play with, and once again, I'm a black guy and my my ex wife was a black woman. Who typically don't really be white guys, but we found out pretty early especially in Colorado. There's not a lot of black couples. So he was like, You know what, let's try something different. Let's let's you know, I haven't. I've been with a couple white girls but not a lot more black and Latino. And she has never been with a white guy. So he was like, You know what, let's find someone that's out of our comfort zone and see how that goes. Which made me a little bit more confident because in some ways I just felt like another black guy was like straight up competition. They that's what he likes. The first one was he was attractive but not like something is a guy who will go home and really date you know, and we kind of realized early on like these are people we having fun when we not date so so they didn't have to meet every standard we looking for. You know, we could just have fun and not not be so like uptight about it. Like this person ain't perfect.
Right? So it's just sex. Right? Exactly. Yeah. How was that? How was that couple? Like did you enjoy having sex with them and seeing your wife with that white guy?
You know, it's so funny because um the first couple was kind of like our Yoda, couple. You know, they taught us a lot. But we also learned some things we didn't like, for instance, like my wife is like she's a very exwife, She's a very sensual like she don't want to be banged and I'm a pretty decent sized guy. So the white guy wasn't that big. During sex he just started like slamming on it like boom, boom. And I think in his mind, he was thinking like, wow, she could take my size, right? So his size should not be a problem. And we learned early on like, like, a lot of guys don't listen, to tend to go what feels good for them. Sometimes they fuck out of ego or whatever. So
Wait a second. Hold on. You didn't know that before this.
I never dated a guy so I know. Okay. So the first couple was good in some ways and bad and bad and others we we learned a lot from them, but I'm saying token it wasn't like a super great experience.
I want to get to your current wife so let's I mean, how did you buy Why did you divorce I had to didn't have anything to do with the lifestyle or?
Yeah, I would say the lifestyle destroyed our marriage. Oh, really? What happened? Yeah, so once again, was really young. Our ability to communicate wasn't wasn't very well established. And we was dealing with was like playing with fire. And also, I met her when I was really young. So the opportunity to be with different women was like very enticing. So that's what I did. You know, sometimes with her sometimes without her, you know, and I like I just don't
know about it. Did she know about? Oh, no. So then you ended up cheating,
Right? Yes. Did she? Yes, she did too. Yeah. Oh, okay. Um, and usually like you cheat with someone where we just slept with you know, it was like I was with I was with this this other wife and and then we her start chatting. On the side and then she knows she's hit me up say hey, I would like to meet you solo. And we did a funny funny thing is I got divorced and she ended up getting a divorce too. But I think I think it just came down to the fact that my ex wife and I did not fully communicate what we wanted. And it was very difficult to talk so I kind of sorted it out without her because I felt like if I told her she'd have made been more jealous, and she did judge me and I was like, You know what, I'm just gonna do it on the side. Right.
So you weren't transparent with each other? No, not at all. Not at all. Was the wife that you were cheating with? You said that she also got divorced. Did her husband know she was meeting you on the side?
I don't know. I don't know. Because Because when I got caught with her, my ex wife did not like like she was going to tell him but she ended up not telling them. She was like, You know what, you don't want to destroy the marriage. She's gonna let them be. Although our marriage was like in the shitter. I was like, Damn, she's getting the other girls. She's getting away scot free. And I'm taking all of it but I think they did. I think they end up divorcing just out of like, didn't have you didn't have the chemistry anymore.
Okay, so let's fast forward. You're with your new woman now. Yeah. Does she have any prior lifestyle experience before you know?
No. Although a lot of her friends is like a poly or swing was like she wasn't like, totally foreign to it.
Okay, so she knew about it. She just wasn't in the lifestyle. Yeah. How soon after you met her. Did you tell her that you were interested in the lifestyle
Instantly because I was I was already in the lifestyle. I went from being a married couple to like being a single guy/bull depending on the dependent on other couples fantasy, you know?
Okay, so after you divorce your first wife, you stayed in the lifestyle as a single male. Yeah. Yeah. Was that fun?
Right? Yeah. It was on and off because because then I actually did find some other relationships that I did leave the lifestyle for a little bit because then my girlfriend currently the girlfriend at the time wasn't wasn't down with it.
Alright. And she was she was she the new woman was down with it. She's like, okay, yeah,
Yes. You know. My see, and this will live changes because now I'm no longer a married couple full swap. And I'm no longer single guy/bull. Kind of little bit of a stag. So she only plays.
Oh, well, so Okay, so right now. You don't play with anyone else.
Nah, she don't want to share me. She does not want to share me.
Oh, interesting. Right now. Had you guys tried it yet? No, no, no, she made. She made it known from the beginning. Sure, we'll get into lifestyle but it's going to be a one way street.
Right. Right. And you were okay with that. 100% 100% I probably in some ways, even even advocated, you got to understand. I like I have had a lot of women in my life. And I've done everything sexually you possibly can do.
Oh, wait a second. Like what? Threesomes are nothing,
Right? For sure. For sure. What else? Um, threesomes. Gang bangs. I've had cuckold couples. I mean, you name it like like you know when it comes to the only thing that I haven't done and we didn't may disappoint you because I feel like I listened to your shows. And every time a guy says you get really excited about it like yes, I haven't done a lot of bi stuff. I've had guys do things to me.
Oh, hold on. Oh wait a sec.
Yeah, I know you're gonna get it. But I haven't reciprocated.
Wait a second. Jay. You can't say that you haven't done bi stuff you've had done to you.
Right. So here's my thought thought on this and I listen to a guy on your show that kind of explain this a little bit. And he's like, when you look at gay and bisexuality. I think that comes down to your attraction. Meaning that if I'm attracted to a man in any form, and I'm not in other words, we're all going to bed as a mom with a couple. And the guy requesting to do something while I'm engaging with his wife. I may be apt to say if I could go ahead and you know, my wife was a mouth hen has a hand. Yeah,
By the way. That's my line. It’s just a mouth. Right. But and I've actually I've said that a lot in a lot of the episodes because I've always thought and I have no experience but just in my head. I've always thought that to be bisexual. There has to be like an attraction there that's separate from just a sexual act.
Right, exactly. So because once again, if the wife left the room or left the bed, then you're you're gone. Yeah, then I'm no longer engaging in that. Right. Okay, so I don't know if that's like a little bit of a form of like, pansexual or something like that, you know, you kind of do whatever feels good. You do it. So that's why I said I will say that I'm bi comfortable. Right, bi flexible, right, but not bisexual because I you know, I just don't find that attractive. I mean, let me say right, I don't I don't find that attractive. It just doesn't turn me on.
Well, and you're you're kind of like a pillow princess. Right? These terms I'm on, right? Yeah, like okay, yeah, you can do that to me, but I'm not returning the favor
Right? Right. Right. Exactly. And the truth is, it's funny because a lot of the couples don't want it that they like, especially when you are the bull. Like it's a certain amount of dominance. You have in those experience that both the husband and wife wants to please you and they are very gratified in the fact that they are pleasing you especially that has because because a wife actually wants to get pleased to right she wants like someone so give her that type of experience, but usually the husband tends to be like, whatever you want to you want me to give you a blow job you want me fluffy you want me to, you know do different things to you. So, and and honestly, I'm okay with that.
Okay, well, so this is so interesting to me because you've you've been the full swab couple. You've been the bull where everyone's out to please you and now you're in a relationship where you don't get to play with anyone else. Right. Right. And, and you're good with it. Yes. Yes. Are you sure you're good with it?
Like I was saying before I've done so many things right and but I've never I was Wonder how does it feel to be the stag and even some forms the cuck and and and I was like I don't know if I could ever play that role until you until you get presented with with the opportunity and you realize, you know this is kind of fun. It's very erotic. It does hit a lot of jealousies, a lot of insecurity. It's almost a form of BDSM it's like torture in a way. Uh huh. Like you know what, when I watch it, like, don't get me wrong. I mean, I do my jealousies flare up. But then it makes me want her more. Yeah, the whole reclaiming process becomes so exciting. Wait you would just with this other guy. Now I want you back and I'm going to I'm going to compete for your affection.
Okay, so actually, this now makes a lot of sense to me because again, you were a very jealous person, but you've been able to feed off those jealousy feelings. Yeah, right. Yeah. And instead of letting it destroy your relationship, you've eroticized it and turn it into something that arouses you,
You're 100% And I tell you a situation is really weird. So me, my wife, we we hooked up with this guy we had a good time. He had to even spend the night with us all in a hotel. We all spent the night and then the next morning, I had to go to to a workout that I was putting together and my and my wife was going to come with me. But I could tell she was kind of lazy about it. I could tell she really didn't want to work out. So I said, Hey, you have a choice here. You can either come with me, or you can stay here with the guy and you know and whatever. And in my mind, I don't know why I said that. Because I just want her to come with me.
Yeah, you didn't want you really want her to you didn't want give her the choice, right?
So she like comes up and kiss me. It's like okay, I think I'm gonna stay. Oh, and I was devastated. I left. I left the hotel room. I walked to the workout. I was like I'm trying to I'm trying to put my my clients by members students work out and I'm pissed.
Oh, your poor client, you beat the hell out of them that day
I put on a good poker face. Nobody knew anything. And then afterwards, she was texting me and I was like, I need space. I don't want to talk to you. And she's like, No Talk to me. It was like I don't want to talk. It's a fun and later on a day, I went home and I went to go see her. And I was like, well, we need to talk and like and I was furious. Now I didn't even know they had sex. I actually thought it didn't have sex because right before we left, they just had we all had sex. And everybody came including him so I thought it was done. I just thought she went back maybe just to cuddle and whatnot. Right? So I was still mad about that. But but then I asked I was like, What should I do when I left did ya’ll, have sex again? And she said yes. And I turned to her and I was like, I don't know if I can continue with this. I don't know if I continue. I almost wanted to leave her. Wow, I was that I felt like she in the most insecure, overly jealous way. I felt like she chose him over me. And I just was not ready for that. And part of me was mad at myself because I put her in that situation. So fast forward like she's like, but I did it for you. I even recorded a video. Oh, right. And I was like, I don't know if I could watch that video. She's like she sent it to me. And then one day when I finally got enough nerves and we got we talked and we kind of messed it up. We kind of explained like some things we shouldn't do. Maybe I need to be a little bit more honest with my feelings and not put in a position which you could choose the wrong thing. But then I sat back and watched the video and I tell you it's the most watched video I ever had.
Again, again, you're taking that jealousy and turning it into something really erotic for yourself.
Yeah, we talked about it all the time. We talked about how mad I was and like it almost ended us almost ended everything and now this video that I constantly go back to it's so crazy how I watched that video and like I tried to listen to them talking and like I put the phone to my ears so I can hear the verbals.
. It's it's so hot and oh my god.
Okay. All right. And how long have you guys been doing this now?
We've been kind of playing around with this for the last past 10 months, although I kind of told her about this from the jump. Like Like, I let her know like almost off first date, my past and like, in just like but I wanted to build a relationship with her first before we engage on on anything.
Right? But, but it's part of part of the jealousy that you get off on. Depends on the fact that you got to care for this woman because if you didn't care for her that kind of jealousy thing isn't a strong right?
You are 100% Correct. Like I've had like, gotta get out of your head. Ya know you all up in my head. Because I've had threesomes with like, girls up like random hooked up. With and it's nothing is a fun time. But it doesn't have that. That constant residue of like erotism that are constant keep going back to my head when I'm like masturbating or even when I'm having sex. Her and I we’re talking about are we bringing it up we live in. We still live in that post sex high that post play high. It's so crazy to now that like we are establishing we growing to like to the point that we now like establishing like a only fans page of some of our exploits some of our adventures which is scary. We want to share with we want to we want to have fun with this. But how do we do it where as we don't get exposed?
Right? You want to do it safely. Yeah. Right. So of course that is something that just probably everybody in the lifestyle deals with at one point or another I guess you probably know by now you'd never say never right? I mean, might there be. Might there be a change in your future where your wife says, Okay, maybe maybe you can start playing a little. Do you see that happening?
Maybe man because she does say things to me. And sometimes he's like, you know, she does fantasize about me with another woman. I'm gonna tell you something, man. She got this fantasy of me and another guy which really blows my mind.
Oh, you know, a lot of women have that fantasy.
Yeah, I guess
It's a because it's so taboo. Yeah. She wait does she want does she want to see you doing something to someone else or?
No? Yeah, me. Like fucking another guy. Right and but but she even said she's more okay with me being with another guy than than another woman.
Okay, and you should be able to understand that.
Yeah. I mean
She knows she ain’t gonna lose you to him,
right? Yes, it gives me the option that I don't want. It is fine because I I don't know if she if she would ever get there. We have talked about it, but I'm not also pushing it so
Good. You know, just because I mean looking back at your own history. Okay, you started as a very jealous person. Right? And look where you are today like you. Like come on. 20 years ago, if I asked you if you'd be in a position where your wife goes and plays and you watch it, would you say yes, absolutely. Not right. 100% Yeah, so so who knows right? It will be interesting to follow your story I want I would love to have you back on so so we see how you've progressed. You know,
I will say this though. I don't know if it gives me the same excitement. And I think this is a reason why I don't push it. It doesn't give me the same excitement than when I watch her.
Right because well, when when jealousy is the kink, right? I mean, that is so strong when you're playing with fire. Yeah. I mean, you know how much hotter can it really get? Right? Right. Right. So the other stuff just may not do it for you up here and just hearing you talk. I think that you would agree. It's not the actual sex. It's not the sexual activity. It's the whatever's going on up in your mind. Yeah, that's the thing that's getting you.
But just knowing that she's still enjoying another man's touch and I sat there and watched it and I'm like, allowing it to happen. And but then she looks so beautiful though. Like Like her face her facial expression. body movement. Love kissing, not love touching. Actually love in some ways, like getting ready for her.
Right? Oh, I forgot to ask you. So after she's been with him, like have you ever like jumped right in and have to? Oh, you have to tell but what I mean is like, like immediately like she doesn't shower off. Yeah. Why is that part of the turn on?
It is like I want to I want to taste her. I want to I want to kiss her. I want to I want to I want to fuck her if she's not too sore already depending on how big the guy is. She actually prefers that more than I do play. Mostly because I know how to get her ready. She has a very specific way you can't just go and fuck it. You can just put it in and start being like you. It's such a slow process where
She sounds like a woman.
Right? But a lot of guys don't know that. And like I learned the first thing they think like, oh, I need to go deep, you know? And she's like, she's like the tease like almost sticking it in slowly, which is the tip of pulling out going back and forth and like you don't have to go so deep. You know to like to prove that you are big whatever the case can be that takes time need to get what the heck is that open up to open up so so a lot of times I'm the one that's like preparing her and get 100 open and getting her ready. But afterwards Yes, the smell the taste everything like it's it's all part of it
I mean, a lot of that sounds very much like like a cuck, Jay, I see I think you're you're my man have a problem with labels. Right, right, right, right. Right. You have an issue with the label of being bisexual you have an issue with the label of being a cuck, right? But you like many of the same things.
So sometimes I I've been wanting to block a lot and I think when you when you think about someone being a cuckold, do a little bit less dominant in some ways. They like to be humiliated. They like to, to like it's a very submissive role. And, and, and I'm not a submissive guy.
But you know, but but but like everything. There's the spectrum that we keep on talking about so not all cucks want to be degraded or humiliated, but that humiliation that you're that you're talking about and that you claim not to want not to like. I sense a bit of that when you tell me things like, like you can't believe here she is. She's with another guy. Right? because that in itself is a form of humiliation. When I hear you talk about, you know, watching her and and seeing her enjoy herself, right you know it's the How dare she she's with this other guy and he's pleasing her. So there's a little bit of that in there. It's just not what we see in porn like you know, normally you're not gonna be the guy forced to blow blow the her partner.
So, so forget point I'll tell my real life experience that I've had with cuckolds right. And they do play a very, very specific role. Like for instance, like the you know, like the guy like they did prop the guy up to prop the bull up, he's bigger than me. He looks better than me. You know, you know, my wife enjoys the more you know, like it's it is I think the difference between the duck and a stag is the mental state as a stag could be still a very dominant person sometimes he's jumping in and playing too sometimes you pushing the guy aside but like you're it's my turn. As a cuckold you more like sitting back and you are at the whim of the bull, and the hot wife. So I do think it is a submissive role that I don't play. Right okay. And it could be because like it has to be a difference between like a stag and in a cuckold like what's the difference? And I think stag is still typically are still very dominant person dominant force.
Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Well, this is awesome because you explain stag very well to me because I was having problems kind of differentiating that in the cuck. But also you kind of stand on your own in that. You never go play with anyone else either. Right, which is a part of the cuck thing. Right? So you're, you're like, You're your own stag. You’ve like defined it.
I think a stag is sometimes as that could be someone who also don't play you know, but But once again, there's so many very various levels of a cuckold where like the cuckold don't don't don't even get his wife at all very minimal. He's, he's denied a lot. You know, and a stag is not
And isn't that the wonderful thing about the lifestyle is there are no hard and fast rules. Yeah, I mean, the only rule is come up with your own
right, right, right. Everybody has a have the own particular rule like my number one rule. It's about respect and I separate my vanilla life from my lifestyle life. And I don't want them intertwine. I got kids that's like that's grown in and I got a lot of people that know me and respect me and I don't want them knowing what I'm doing in my bedroom. I don't want them knowing that I'm sharing my wife and like, Oh, if she ever shared me she shared me because people judge and it's so sad. You know, that like, like your bedroom could affect your business. I own a business. It could affect your professional life. You know, your family life. So it sounded like you can't just go out and live your life.
Leyna: If you'd like to connect with J and his wife they're on Twitter @HotExposureIR. Alright, next time, on Consenting Adults, Anita and her husband quickly fall into a Stag/Vixen dynamic.
Guest: My husband was kind of like ok, this is what I'd like to see.
Leyna: Oh, so your husband started directing.
Guest: Yes, it was kind of a theme.
Leyna: That's next time, on Consenting Adults.
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Consenting Adults is produced for the ear and is designed to be heard. We strongly encourage you to listen to the audio which includes emotion, emphasis, and humor that isn't expressed in the written word. Transcripts are generated using a combination of automated and human transcription and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.