Ep 3 The Difference Between Swinging, Polyamory, and Taco Tuesday

In this episode of Consenting Adults, host Leyna Nguyen chats with intimacy coach, Audria to learn about different intimate relationships like swinging, polyamory, ethical monogamy, open marriages, and Taco Tuesday! Audria herself is a married pansexual and polyamorous.

EP 3 – The Difference Between Swinging, Polyamory, and Taco Tuesday
Transcription:
 
0:00
Look who's here. You are back. You're back for episode three, which means you're not shocked, or maybe aren't gonna like it. Anyway, whatever the reason, welcome back two consenting adults, I'm your host Leyna Nguyen. Today, we are talking to an intimacy coach, about the different arrangements that people have. In fact, she was able to convince her own parents to think outside the box. She doesn't care if he has sex with other people, part of their arrangement is that he's only with sex workers because she doesn't want there to be any possible feelings involved is just sex. Get ready. This is Consenting Adults.
 
(Podcast Show Open)
 
1:16
Leyna:             My guest today is Adria O'Neill, a certified intimacy coach, like who certifies you what what does that actually mean
 
1:24
Guest:             Well there are  different certifications you can get. And what's great about that is you end up getting eclectic education based on, you know who you want to help. For example, there's some intimacy coaches that are specifically they come from a Christian angle, or there are alternative lifestyle coaches, I love Tantra, I think it brings a really beautiful element to intimacy, and therefore, I have a lot of education in that and how to incorporate that.
 
1:51
Leyna:             So then you study what you study, you become certified and then you help couples or people deal with whatever intimacy issues they may have or maybe not even issues do you sometimes just help people discover things. Yes, when I was getting to know Adria before we did this interview. One of the things she told me was that she has been practicing ethical non monogamy for 12 years happily married for eight, ethical, non monogamy. What does it mean
 
2:18
Guest:             it means being non monogamous in an ethical way where there's no cheating. Cheating is lying to someone, and leading them to believe a reality that is not the case, so that you can have your cake and eat it too.
 
2:31
Leyna:             Ok so But then as a young woman, let's say in your 20s What is the difference between being promiscuous and ethical non monogamy
 
2:38
Guest:             In ethical non monogamy, you can have a primary partner, but also be able to have flings or explore things with other people, and it's all in a very open, transparent way.
Leyna:             So with their knowledge.
Guest:             Yes, with everyone's knowledge,
 
2:53
LEyna:             but is it always with their blessing.
Guest:             Yes, it needs to be, or does, yes, yes, you know, in relationships, you don't just do whatever you want whenever you want and the other person deals with it.
Leyna:             you have your own podcast. It's called Make Love.
Guest:             Yes,
 
3:06
Leyna:             I listened to it and one thing that really struck me as refreshing actually is to have a young woman, by the way, if you're not watching this and some of you will be able to watch this. She's beautiful and very often when people think about Swingers, or open marriages or whatever kind of non traditional sexual practices to kind of think of those people that I remember seeing on HBO is real sex where they're you know, not attractive overweight, they look like they're from Kansas, no offense to Kansas, but no you don't think that regular or good looking attractive people take part in those but they do, but you talk about proper sex, what is proper sex.
 
3:48
Guest:             Well we were raised to believe sex has to be a certain way, that is only for procreation and saved for marriage is only with the opposite sex is within the limits of monogamy, it cannot be kinky, and it can never be compensated for. However, I've been led to believe that the only bad sex is non consensual sex, and what I call disposable sex, which is sex that lacks kindness, appreciation, basically it's one step up from non consensual sex and, you know for example that
 
4:17
Leyna:             I'm going to stop you for a second is you talk about kindness but you also talk about BDSM. So what is the difference.
 
4:23
Guest:             A lot of people do get confused when that BDSM is different from abuse because it abuse, the person receiving isn't asking for it. Right, okay, you're specifically saying they don't want it, but within a BDSM relationship, there is respect, and essentially the submissive is actually the one in control because when submissive says, I want this, it will stop. If I say you know the color red, for example, I would like to be slapped on my ass. I don't want to be slapped on my face.
 
4:55
Leyna:             Don't touch the face Do not touch the face,
Guest:             things like that. It specifically they have full control.
 
5:01
Leyna:             Tell me about your sexual history or background.
Guest:             I'm actually pansexual
Leyna:             You’ve got to explain this  I've heard this, I don't know what the heck it means.
 
5:10
Guest:             It means being able to be romantically and sexually attracted to anyone despite their gender type doesn't mean you're attracted to everyone right just like a heterosexual woman is not attracted to every man,
 
5:22
Leyna:             you know I make that argument all the time because, especially men who are homophobic, because I say to them, what is it do you find every heterosexual girl you see do you find them all the trap, do you want to sleep with all of them, and they're like no of course not. I'm like, why would you think every gay man would want to sleep with you. It's kind of, conceited, right, it's like how arrogant are us like what you don't want to go hang out with this gay guy because he might hit what that's ridiculous. So anyway, I'm trying to understand the difference between bisexual where you'll sleep and have feelings for both men and women and pansexual, so what does pan also include?
 
5:54
Guest:             people who are in the middle of being a man and a woman. They can be transgender. For example, they can be a man who is becoming a woman, a woman becoming a man or someone who does decide to stay in the middle.
 
6:08
Leyna:             Okay so then you've had experiences with people like that to be able to call yourself a pansexual,
Guest:             yeah.
Leyna:             Okay, continuing on now and on what I want to talk with you about on your professional life and that is your work with a lot of couples, what is their age range from 20s to 50s, and I know that there are a lot of issues, but can you kind of give me a few of the main issues that people come to you for
 
6:30
Guest:             a lot of times, the man feels like there's this disconnection with his wife, because she has some sort of shame or trauma, and so she's not able to really given in the bedroom, and he wants them to be able to have that kind of connection that kind of intimacy. One guy for example he was saying that he did know his wife dealt with sexual trauma when she was young, and therefore, whenever they have sex, she tends to get triggered and freak out and it makes them really sad, you know, he also has to deal with that he feels ashamed for being a sexual creature, feeling like he's hurting her by them, trying to enter into experiencing an erotic event,
 
7:12
Leyna:             does anyone come to you and want to experience things that they're not doing right now, couples who maybe want to try and open marriage to open marriages work in your opinion,
 
7:23
Guest:             yes.
Leyna:             Oh yeah you're in one.
Guest:             Yeah I know lots of couples who does I'm very much a part of the community, the community is very big. I am shocked to find out that I have friends who live that lifestyle, I never would have guessed, and I thought you were pretty conservative, and they're really really happy. And then the more I talk to people like oh yeah, you know, we participate in that or our neighbors are as like, it's all walks of life, right, talk about your experience with an open marriage.
Leyna:             Is it something your husband was into before he met you,
 
7:54
Guest:             well yes when we first met, we both were in open relationships. This is my second marriage in my first marriage, that's how I got into polyamory before I knew what polyamory was I never heard of the term of ethical monogamy. But basically what happened there was we got together when we were 18 from married when we were 20 we were always pretty wild people, but he was still cheating on me quite often. And we were best friends. At a certain point I told him you know, just talk to me about things. I understand, we got together young. Did you ever think that we need. I am curious about exploring other things too. We both have been fooling people, and I encourage us to, so we were like, Let's try this we know we don't want to leave each other, but we also are curious about things with other people too, so we just be roles, you know, us tell each other everything. We are in charge of priority, how did that work out for you. Was it him to not work, because he was a major alcoholic, is very hard to follow rules, if you're drunk all the time. I mean, already I wasn't his priority. Anyway,
alcohol was,
Leyna:             but as far as kind of delving into the open marriage that you accepted right away Guest:              It was my idea. 
Leyna:             it was your idea. Were there jealousy issues. So, the first marriage ends.
Guest:             Yes. Well, before it ended,
9:17
I moved to New York City, because I met this girl. I was planning on moving to LA but I had no friends, she's from New York. Her and I got along really well, she said you know when he was traveling to New York First you can stay on her couch for $100, a month, and if you really don't like it then you come in to LA. So we did her and her boyfriend were in an open relationship with my husband, marriage without became friends and their relationship naturally fell apart for many reasons, they were not a healthy relationship you my husband, same thing, both of our relationships, it was inevitable that they were going to end, and her boyfriend, naturally grew closer together, and we've been a blessing in each other's lives because also a whole open thing it made us see how relationships can be, because to be honest I think that if me and my first husband were not in an open relationship, we might still be together, which would be horrible. It would have destroyed my life, he would tell me things like, no one loved her love either way, which makes someone think it's hard to be loved. Right, it was with my now husband that I got to see how I can treat it, and the way I deserve to be treated and so him and I, we thought, oh, what can we have learned open relationships don't work. Let's protect ourselves, and we wanted to get really connected so we were monogamous for the first four years, but then we got so connected, we have so much trust that we actually felt like having some independence and other experiences would help us grow
 
10:44
Leyna:             and so it has lasted for eight years.
Guest:             Yes,
Leyna:             no issues?
Guest:             no,
Leyna:             none,
Guest:             no,
Leyna:             but then you guys both went into the relationship, having been in other open relationships. Would you agree then that, if you don't have a strong marriage, this kind of arrangement will kill it fast.
 
11:02
Guest:             I think so. There are some people who disagree, there's some people who say you don't need to have a good relationship before you open up and might use things to where you do end up finding your better partner. So in my opinion it's more like a transition into a breakup, which no sometimes is the way it should be, but I think definitely if you really wanted to be successful and you wanted to get those here needs to be a lot of trust and a lot of good communication. And a lot of good intimacy between you two. That way when you have dynamics with other people it doesn't. So, nonetheless, I was actually very jealous and very insecure because I was terrified that he was going to meet this other girl that was everything I was anymore. But what I ended up finding out is that there's a lot of people, everyone's very unique, and what I have is so special. And even though there will be other people who are wonderful, that doesn't mean I'm not also wonderful. And am I have a great relationship. Why does he need to say goodbye to me to say hello to someone else. We're polyamorous which means many loves versus just ethically non monogamous so we don't really have sex with other people, you know I have boyfriends and he recently has developed this relationship with this girl I adore so much. It looks like they're going to blossom into a beautiful relationship
 
12:24
Leyna:             and what you guys have all the basis covered. You’re in an open marriage or polyamorous, what else you're pansexual. What about him,
Guest:             He’s straight.
Leyna:             so polyamorous, then it's not just about having sex with a bunch of other people because that's what an open marriage is. Is it the added, emotion,
Guest:             yes, you're allowed to love other people. We did not see it going that way, when we first started off one of our rules was no love for other people.
 
12:51
Leyna:             How can that be a rule because, I mean, you can't make yourself love someone you can't make yourself not,
 
12:57
Guest:             well it's kind of like how monogamous people try to control that, right, it'll be like, don't spend a lot of time with this other person.
Leyna:             How about kissing.
Guest:             Oh yeah, absolutely,
Leyna:             because I've talked to people who thought kissing was much more intimate than sexual intercourse, and so some of their rules would be lay off on the kissing.
 
13:14
Guest:             Yeah, I've always found that interesting. I've never had sex without kissing and I would never want sex without kissing, but that's me.
Leyna:             How do you see oral sex, do you see that as more intimate than intercourse. Guest:                     Yeah, I mean, I guess in the senses of that there are a lot of people who have penetration, without having oral sex, and there's a lot of people who don't participate in oral sex one way or both ways, until they feel very very comfortable. So in that way it can be more intimate, to some people, than penetrative sex,
13:43
Leyna:             right, but to you, it's obviously, like it's all part of the experience.
Guest:             Yeah, I've never had a problem with oral sex, aside from not being jealous.
Leyna:             Aside from having such a strong relationship with your husband, and allowing him to experience other things, is there a turn on there for you to know that he's with someone else I mean because this data be part of it I cannot imagine that the, that is love that's making you, You know let him go off.
 
14:07
Guest:             Hi, since we opened up our marriage, I was been a pretty sexual person on a whole other level. Recently, we did our first swap date because we met this amazing couple just adore them we have so much fun together. So I did them both on when we do like good stuff together, but like, sexually, you know, since he's straight him in the guy don't interact that way, but their friends girlfriends. I'm with them both sexually and romantically, and my husband, dates, the girl, and we recently had our very first swap date sleep over where she came up and human her went out on a legit date, while I went on a date with her boyfriend, spent the night at each other's places and in the morning, him and I called each other while I was driving home and told each other everything. Yeah.
Leyna:             so it's almost like sex a second time. When You're reliving it with your husband. Guest:               Yeah,
Leyna:             And you find it a turn on to hear about what he did.
 
15:03
Guest:             Yeah, and then it's like, I want to come home and get it the way she got it. Sometimes it's like well we'll be having sex, I'm like, oh my god that position is so fucking hot you have to do that with her. While you guys are very giving. Yes, we I see it is. He is a gift to women, and I feel like it's only fair that I share. And at the end of the day it comes home to me, and I really love that.
 
15:27
Leyna:             Actually you know what I've heard that a lot. That still at the end of the day, I've heard my friend say this at the end of the day she's coming home to me. Yeah, so there's still something very special that you hold on for yourselves and no one else. Right. And that's that, you know, he's still mine. Yeah, you're just sharing him.
Guest:             Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Leyna:             Does your family know that you do this?
 
15:49
Guest:             they do. Yeah, my whole family or friends, even our acquaintances, because we want other people to know that if they see us out with someone else that we're not cheating. Yeah, yeah, my whole family knows they knew about me being open in my first relationship too, so they know that this was a part of who I am.
Leyna:             Have you ever tried to talk your parents into doing something like this?
Guest:             Well…
Leyna:             Oh, my God.
Guest:             Yeah,
Leyna:             really.
 
16:14
Guest:             Also, they cheated on each other a lot, they've now been together 32 years, but all when I was a child, they cheat on each other a lot and cost a lot of problems, but they've changed a lot. My dad is truly a polyamorous person, he has the ability to love more than one person, without that subtracting love from my mother who never wants to leave my mother he makes it always clear that she is his number one, and he will love her to the day he dies, he's never gonna leave her there. Know how much I should say here,
Leyna:             did you suggest to them that maybe they should try an open marriage.
Guest:             Yeah, so, so about six years ago my dad told me that he'd gotten the situation where he was in love with another woman and he totally didn't expect it and didn't know what to do. I suggested that he told my mother, and that they talk about it, they work it out in the beginning she absolutely freaked out because even though she had fallen in love with other guys in her life, and out of the relationships and sometimes there is hypocrisy that happens when emotions are high and of course years going by over time, she saw that he hadn't loved her. So they're working out. Yeah, she has less of a desire to be with other people because she's gone through menopause, she just doesn't really care. She doesn't really want to put that effort into dating, and I wouldn't say he wants to put that effort into dating and he's, it's just this other woman it's not, you know he's not going around sitting with a whole bunch of people and
 
17:47
Leyna:             let's talk about menopause and the effects it has on women, there are some people who said you know after my wife had menopause, say she turned into a man like she doesn't want anything anymore. And that led them to stray,
Guest:             I know someone who he's in an ethically non monogamous relationship with his wife, because she went through menopause, and she they love each other very much they want to be together, nurse for life together, they're great house partners and, you know, and still very romantically involved, but she admitted to him, you know, she just doesn't want that anymore. And she doesn't care if he has sex with other people, part of their arrangement is that he's only with sex workers because she made the rule that she doesn't want there to be any possible feelings involved is just sex. So it's kind of like once a week on Tuesday, after work. Yeah, I think, with his favorite escort and then comes home for dinner.
 
18:35
Leyna:             They call it the oldest profession for a reason. It's been going on forever. Obviously it's illegal here, and yet people still do it. Do you approve of sex for money money for sex,
 
18:46
Guest:             I do. It really depends on the context, obviously sex trafficking where someone is completely being controlled and they don't want to do it and they're not keeping the money, obviously that's wrong, but there is consensual sex work, which means that the person who is asking to be compensated for their time. Wants to be doing it, they enjoy doing it, sometimes there are people who they don't necessarily like the job, but it works for them because maybe they have children or they have a lot of debt, or they they have their reasons why they've chosen this job just like there's people who they don't like their other jobs, but they do it for the money, they do it for the convenience, so that more is survival sex work, I don't necessarily think that that's the healthiest choice, but I don't judge people who feel like you know, they're doing what they need to do for their life. I think consensual sex work, where women really do enjoy it and they feel like this is a talent of theirs because a lot of these girls told me that they feel like they're a healer, you know, they actually enjoy their clients, because also something that a lot of people don't understand is they get to choose who they see, they that people you know they will do emails or phone calls to make sure that there is chemistry, they will have websites where they say these are my boundaries, These are my rates. This is my personality, this is the kind of person, I'm looking to engage with,
 
20:11
Leyna:             I mean because that's something I would expect, like in you know Thailand right where you can like go online and order some, like there's a menu or something but is this happening here.
 
20:21
Guest:             Yes, in the more developed countries like parts of Europe and, and yes here, Australia, by the way, since you're mentioning all these other places.
Leyna:             Do you think we as Americans are uptight about sex.
Guest:             Yes absolutely,
Leyna:             despite how we claim to be open minded.
 
20:38
Guest:             Yeah, essentially, very sad and unhealthy because here, it's over sensationalized, it's like everyone is secretly obsessed with it, you know how porn is such a huge thing. But yet we tend to not really talk about it in a healthy outward way like this. What a lot of people don't know is that in these more developed countries, there is a lot of this consensual sex work, where the workers are very educated, like the same people who you see walking around, a lot of them they are on dates with successful businessmen, out in restaurants and you can't even tell because they don't walk around in skimpy dresses and stripper heels. It really is played out all like a real date, it's just that the man understands that, you know he's not offering her a long term relationship. Maybe he's not necessarily her type. and so he offers her money for her time, you know a lot of these guys care about these women's financial stability, their future. They get to know each other, and, you know, they learn about their dreams, slip so it's a business contract. Yeah, and a lot of times there's also friendship. They really you know don't tend to see the same girls wandering over again becomes a mutually beneficial relationship, it's not just based on the sex it's not just based on money.
 
22:01
Leyna:             I've always said if I was a guy, man, I'd be I lived I'd have 24 hours of like non stop sex. That's how I always viewed, how pleasurable sex is for men. What are the study say, Have you looked into this. Yeah, who has the better orgasm, Audria,
Guest:             We do.
Leyna:             really.
Guest:             Yes,
Leyna:             how
Guest:             so actually the clitoriss has double the amount of nerve endings, than the tip of the penis. And so, there's more sensation, women have multiple ways of orgasm, such as from the glitter is from the G spot from penetration but that's actually one of the hardest ways for a female to orgasm, and women can have multiple orgasms. They vary in the level of intensity, women can have orgasms that lasts like five minutes what I've personally
experienced that
Leyna:             Really? five minutes.
Guest:             Yes,
Leyna:             I feel like I would pass out and die of that happened afterwards. Can you share, like, what was different,
 
23:00
how that happened,
Guest:             that happened with Hitachi on my clit while being fucked very just perfect how I wanted to be thought with someone I really loved and felt excited by and so a lot of times women orgasm it's fake.
Leyna:             And, and I've told so many of my guy friends. Trust me, you been with a woman whose favorite, if not every woman you've been with has faked it. And they just won't believe me feel like no way she I heard, none of them, no no no no, it's actually kind of sad. It is how many women don't enjoy sex, don't have orgasms when they're with their partner, but hey you guys the trade off is ours feel better than yours.
 
23:43
Guest:             Yeah. And so the thing about the female orgasm is that really when a woman orgasms her vagina, it does this clenching and releasing like contracting, and her whole body, all of the muscles in her body. Start tensing and contracting, so they kind of go into this like paralysis, seizure thing and usually the woman doesn't want to flail around and that crazy and she's more like.
 
24:13
Leyna:             And so you're with a woman and she's like going wild like a bull,  she might not be having the orgasm you think she is.
Guest:             Yeah, my acting goes into that.
Leyna:             The reason why women, fake it is so selfless. Yeah, because we do it for the guy, Guest:              yeah for his ego,
Leyna:             right, but that is doing such a disservice to yourself because you're not teaching him anything. You are getting nowhere by faking your orgasms Yeah, and women don't learn that some women never learned, but women don't learn that until much later in life.
 
24:43
Guest:             And also it's really sad that in that moment, they are experiencing sex from the outside and they're performing instead of focusing on what they are feeling and experiencing inside their body.
 
24:53
Leyna:             Have you ever heard the term, and if you haven't is because I made it a selfish sex, you haven't heard about it. Oh my gosh, this intimacy coach ever did I really did make it up. Guest:                     That's why I'm like, I guess not. But I cannot, I assume that I understand it,
Leyna:             okay so then let me know if this is what you thought of when I said that it took me pretty late in life to have selfish sex where was all about me like that I didn't care, but my focus wasn't on him. I wasn't worried because he enjoyed himself. I wasn't worried. I wasn't worried about all of those other things, and finally it was like a light went on and I it was great, but up until then it was just for the other person. I think the best sex is for me selfish sales. And trust me, they're having a good time too. When you're with the right man, he's really only going to really enjoy it when he knows you truly are. Yeah, anyway but is that when you start selfish sex probably was. Yes, and that's honestly only sex like half Yeah, it's great. Yeah, right. It sounds awful. But when you get it, you'll get it. Okay, let's backtrack a little bit and talk about jealousy, there will be a lot of men who listen to this podcast and they can't even imagine, sharing their woman, a lot of men are that way, they can't imagine they don't want to imagine it, they will consider it, because right away, it's no one is going to be with my woman, and it's a jealousy thing. How does someone overcome that I mean, I get jealousy. Personally, I've never been a jealous person, and that always bothered the guy is always like well if you love me, you know, but I think the majority of people have that green monster inside them right. Like you don't want to see your mate with someone else, how do you overcome something like that, especially if you want to venture into this open marriage and non monogamous.
 
26:42
Guest:             Well I think a really important thing for people to realize is that jealousy is conditioned, we were taught to be jealous. For a lot of the time that people have existed on Earth, people are not monogamous, it's something that has developed over time due to what people felt was needed during the agricultural revolution and as a form of birth control and. So you think it's unhealthy, I do. And so, for example with the conditioning. Someone brought up to me about how they were watching with their kids on stones, and there was this part where Fred Flintstone looked at another woman and woman got mad at him, and it was kind of presented in this cute way, so already two children were being told that this is acceptable behavior when really is actually very unhealthy, in my opinion, men and women don't actually experience jealousy different, It's just that men tend to do it with anger and women to do it with sadness, and this whole thing about men being unwilling to let their woman be with someone else. He really makes me mad because a lot of women have had to put up with their man being with another woman, and they tend to swallow it and put up with it and forget it. But those same men. If she happens to have an affair with someone else they will say you know what, it's over. Not cool.
 
28:03
Leyna:             Obviously everyone that we interview on this show is, you know, very open about their sexual history and their sexual practices and a lot of them are into this open marriage and experimenting and doing all this other stuff, but there are people out there who is one man, one woman does it. Do you find that weird Do you find that unhealthy or is it kind of everyone's got their own thing.
 
28:23
Guest:             I've definitely met people who insist that when they are with one person, they don't have eyes for anyone else, and they're completely devoted and they think they will be for the rest of their lives. To be totally honest, I think most of the time they are lying because they're trying to present, you know, pure BS.
Leyna:             So do you think they're also lying to themselves.
Guest:             Yes, especially because when they think about that for all theirs to their lives, they're never going to see the value in another person where they will be attracted to them in that way. Now saying that they might not ever act on it. Right. And so in that case, they are truly monogamous, you know for some people, like when me and my husband were monogamous, I very much romanticized that, but once I started looking outside my whole world kind of opened up and that's when I really started to love people, because before then, I honestly kind of hated people I thought people stopped like I was one of those pessimistic, you know like, people saw. I thought the only good men in the world was my husband, my father and my brother. Well actually there's a lot of really wonderful men,
Leyna:             so you don't think humans were really made to be monogamous,
Guest:             no, it's scientifically proven that we were not, and through anthropology as well. And history shows that we were not monogamous for a long time in lots of different cultures all around the world, do you see yourself living this life like forever. Yes, we see it as an open door, it is always an option to have the conversation, I think, are allowed to change our minds whenever we want, as long as it's always a conversation and agreement, if for example, one of us, develops feelings for someone else, I would absolutely never want one of us to lie and be hiding that it grows disconnection and I would just rather know about it and say okay, Well, yeah, let's explore this again.
 
30:20
Leyna:             You also say that you're polyamorous, which means that you're capable of loving other people. So have you fallen in love with other people while married to your husband. Yeah. And so, in the what do you do, how do you keep that from breaking up for marriage.
It's never even been like a scary thing like oh my god is gonna break out my marriage.
 
30:39
Guest:             No not at all.
Leyna:             So you just share it openly with your husband.
Guest:             Yeah,
Leyna:             and what happened I mean did that love eventually stop go away ? Fade?
 
30:45
Guest:             So there's one guy I've been seeing for almost three years now. Me, my husband met him on the same day we met him, he taught us about the lifestyle we both really respected him, he talked to my husband about, you know saying like, yeah you know I feel this connection with your wife. You know I really respect you and talked about it, he was like yeah I really respect you and trust you and I think you're wonderful, and I think you would treat her well, I'd be totally comfortable with you guys going on a date and so he was the first guy I started dating in this open marriage. He has four other partners, the thing is, and I tend to like having five partners, it works really well for me
Leyna:             so five different partners at any given time in your life. That's the magic number for you.
 
31:29
Guest:             Yeah, Because everyone's busy. Most of them have their own partners, and so we can see each other when it makes sense and it keeps things fresh and there's not a lot of pressure on anyone to fulfill all your needs, like one partner practice BDSM stuff with one partner, we're more spiritual to Tantra stuff with our partners at girl. So you've known this guy for three years, not three years now. Yeah, and we've always had the kind of relationship where we see each other like once every month. It was his birthday. His primary partner who I adore so much we're very close friends and she planned where she made him think is going to be a teacher, less than two, but she had all his Metamora has come together, more meaning your partners, partners, you're not sexually in that. And so we were there, surprised him for dinner, and then we, you know, went home and played
Leyna:             all of you.
Guest:             Yeah,
Leyna:             so five girls and the guy.
Guest:             Yeah.
Leyna:             Happy birthday to him,
Guest:             I mean, to be honest, like, I'm never gonna love someone that way I love my husband and I let people know that boyfriends. I let them know, like, you need to understand my husband's my number one, he, you know, we are planning to
Leyna:             and you are only number four, Mr.
Guest:             Plus we have a lot of rules that prevent any issues, you know, one of our rules is that we tell everyone that we're in an open relationship you know so if someone's flirting with us. They understand that we let them know that we are very happy and that we tell each other everything. So that gets rid of a lot of problematic people, so we will only be with other people who respect our relationship, our partner, and would be cool with meeting them as well because if anything starts to develop more than we have a role that my husband that we meet the person, so that they can understand, respect both people, both people can understand.
 
33:20
Leyna:             So do you have advice for people who are hearing this and thinking maybe, maybe it might be for them, and we can just jump into it, how do you start.
 
33:27
Guest:             What's great about ethical non monogamy is that there are many different types for the different you know ways people want to go about it. There's swinging, which means that everything that's done is done. Together, they only have sex with other people together as a couple, and usually that does not become loving relationships with other people you know maybe just says, yeah, maybe they would have a throwable, where it's like one person who's become their new girlfriend, and then there's open relationship or open marriage, which is where you have outside partners, you have sex with them alone, but there's no love involved only sex, then there's polyamory, which is when love is allowed, and so you can have full on other relationships outside of your main relationship. Another option is for one person to be active outside their relationship with an agreement, or where both people are active outside the relationship. Any last thoughts, it's really important to never pressure someone, there's always the future, it's important to be patient so that people can feel trust and you can always learn more about yourself and your partner, life can really open up and become more expansive and fulfilling, and you're always allowed to change your mind, you're allowed to try things, I think people get scared because they think, Oh, we're gonna make this decision is going to be for the rest of our lives. Yeah, it's, It's great to explore.
 
34:48
Leyna:             Thanks for listening, everyone. I'm your host Leyna Nguyen look us up on social media, on Twitter, we're  @consentadults on Instagram. It's @consenting_adults_ show.
On the next episode of Consenting Adults. A couple from Middle America talks about how things don't always go as planned. I saw her doing what she was doing with another man and I almost felt like I was being replaced. That's next time on Consenting Adults.